[tickle]

Now you guys are getting my hint ! Exactly, Alty, go for it, I am with.

GooBoo forever !

[Alty]

Now you guys are getting my hint ! Exactly, Alty, go for it, I am with.

GooBoo forever !

I think we may have to worship Binky the bunny God. You and WG ate GooBoo!

Having said that, I'm running away now before Ben or Chuck slap my wrists for hijacking this thread. Wait... did I hijack it this time? Sigh.

Meet me in the discussion forum where we can discuss our new religion. :)

[dwashbur]

As much as I'm loving the Gooboo side-trip, I feel a need to be a wet blanket and return to the original question {duck and cover}

Annabear, there are two things I know for sure. First, there has to be a god of some sort who is bigger than the universe and had to put it here. Even the so-called God particle isn't a full explanation for existence because it had to come from somewhere or something. Where did God come from then? Don't know, don't care. But the fact of existence and all we know scientifically about the origin of the universe and everything else argues for some creative force. Call it God, call it X, call it late for supper, it doesn't matter. There has to be something "out there."

Second, it's a historically-probable fact that Jesus of Nazareth, a first-century itinerant Jewish preacher, died and rose again. There are a number of facts that just about all but the most radically anti-Bible scholars accept, including
1. He did exist. There's plenty of evidence for it.
2. He was dead. The Romans excelled at putting people to death.
3. The tomb was found empty.
4. Numerous people, followers and non-followers alike, reported seeing him alive after his death and burial. He was seen by individuals and groups, and we have credible eyewitness testimony to all of it.
5. Even opponents like James and Paul (there's no reason to doubt the existence of either one) came to the conclusion that this event really happened. We might be able to explain away James based on guilt, but not Paul. Paul was convinced he was doing God's work by trying to wipe out this new belief system. He honestly believed he was doing good, then suddenly did a 180 and was willing to die for his faith.
6. Something transformed a handful of scared rabbits into bold preachers who were willing to give their lives for the idea that Jesus rose. If the story was false, they had no good reason to go to such lengths. Liars don't make martyrs, especially when there's everything to lose and nothing to gain.

That's just a few. I don't know why you want to completely exclude the Bible, since it is a reasonably accurate record of the events surrounding the beginning of Christianity. The book of Acts, as well as the letters of Paul that we know are authentic, give us enough to establish the facts above. And that's not to mention the writings of Pliny, Josephus and other contemporaries who watched this new movement appear and grow.

I disagree with Alty on one point: real faith isn't blind. It's rooted in facts. There's a lot that we can't prove, sure. But there's enough of a foundation to have an informed faith, one that looks at the facts and draws reasonable conclusions from them. In the case of Jesus, we have enough foundation to do that.

[classyT]

Dave,

While I agree with you completely. I remember watching Peter Jennings do this story something about searching for Jesus. I had the impression he really didn't buy into the life and resurrection of Jesus. But at the end, he had all these different people, historian, theologians, skeptics all say basically the same thing. The all admitted that SOMETHING had to have happened concerning what his disciples witnessed. They based it on how the early Christians were tortured for their beliefs. They all agreed on that best I can remember.

Incidentally, I noticed you weren't too impressed with my thoughts on the Jews... not surprised though. You really need to rethink your position. You couldn't be more wrong... well, aside from your political views. :)

[Fr_Chuck]

But I don't believe that the bible is credible evidence. They say it's like written by god but who is this god? I dont think there's any evidence of him. I'm just really unsure about all this

Say it was written by men, and no one ever said God wrote it, he merely inspired man to write. But men writing it, is evidence, just like testifying in court.

It is like saying I have to touch the stove top, to see if it is hot, I can't believe the warning sign since I don't know who wrote it, and I don't believe anyone that ever touched the stove has written the warning. You don't want to discuss or accept the bible, since it is the proof you refuse to accept

[dwashbur]

Dave,

[snip]

Incidently, I noticed you weren't too impressed with my thoughts on the Jews...not surprised though. You really need to rethink your position. You couldn't be more wrong.....well, aside from your political views. :)

I didn't have anything to add to it. I don't necessarily disagree with what you said, I just didn't have anything to say about it. Your next assignment: come up with a cure for which there is no known disease. Oh wait, you just did that! :P

[Friend of GOD]

Because 1 year ago I was like you I KNEW that Jesus didn't exist. Until I opened my eyes and ears and listened " really listened" it all made perfect sense, and from the second I wispered to GOD ( wow God I BELIEVE and I want you to come into my life) in an instant from my head to my toes I felt GODS love fill my body. A few weeks later I read about when you invite GOD into your life he instantly fills us with his holy spirit .
In a nut shell I know my GOD lives. A year ago I would have been calling me a nutter. Give GOD a chance!! :-)
GOD bless u

[tickle]

Because 1 year ago I was like you I KNEW that Jesus didn't exist. Until I opened my eyes and ears and listened " really listened" it all made perfect sense, and from the second I wispered to GOD ( wow God I BELIEVE and I want you to come into my life) in an instant from my head to my toes I felt GODS love fill my body. A few weeks later I read about when you invite GOD into your life he instantly fills us with his holy spirit .
In a nut shell I know my GOD lives. A year ago I would have been calling me a nutter. Give GOD a chance!!!:-)
GOD bless u

Wonderful post, Friend of GOD

[Friend of GOD]

wonderful post, Friend of GOD

Thanks Bro
;-)

[JudyKayTee]

I know I am repeating myself. But honestly ...how does anyone explain the Jew? Proof to me...God's word is truth.

The Jew? Could you be more offensive? The Puerto Rican, the Black, are no less offensive.

Have you tried asking The Jew any of your questions? Posting about The Jews and your problems understanding Judaism on the Christian Board is like asking vegetarians about pot roast.

If The Jews discussed The Christians on The Jewish Board it would be inappropriate and out of place. I feel the same way here. You are discussing an entire religion behind that religion's back.

I'm always amused by the "Love God" people who can't wait to swipe at something they don't understand - such as Judaism. I think (much as you think about The Jew) that there are two problems with organized religion: (1) People who are repenting or regreting something or other and, therefore, have turned into zealots; (2) People who judge others based on "their" religious beliefs. Oh, wait, there's a third. People who can barely form words and sentences and suddenly see the light and feel compelled to discuss it (using words they barely understand).

"And I think the Jew alone is enough for anyone to come to their senses and recognize that there IS a God."

You've studied Christianity and that gives you insight into The Jews? Please.

And for the record, no, I'm not The Jew. And also I'm not going to discuss religion - I just "think" (in the same way you think about The Jew) that this is inappropriate.

There are people whose words are inspirational - Frchuck, Don, a handful of others. Everyone else it's judgmental, judgmental, judgmental.

Read The Holocaust Chronicle published by Louis Weber. After you've studied that, then come back and preach about what The Jews should and shouldn't expect and want and why they MIGHT want to live apart, in their own Country, with their own religion and maybe even their own language. Until then it is offensive to discuss The Jew on The Christian Board where there are no Jews posting.

And, yes, the Church of the Flying Spaghetti sounds like a good idea. It would be two for one. After we worship the Spaghetti we can eat it.

[tickle]

Thanks Bro
;-)

Not bro my dear, more like sister, but no problem

[classyT]

The Jew? Could you be more offensive? The Puerto Rican, the Black, are no less offensive.

Have you tried asking The Jew any of your questions? Posting about The Jews and your problems understanding Judaism on the Christian Board is like asking vegetarians about pot roast.

If The Jews discussed The Christians on The Jewish Board it would be inappropriate and out of place. I feel the same way here. You are discussing an entire religion behind that religion's back.

I'm always amused by the "Love God" people who can't wait to swipe at something they don't understand - such as Judaism. I think (much as you think about The Jew) that there are two problems with organized religion: (1) People who are repenting or regreting something or other and, therefore, have turned into zealots; (2) People who judge others based on "their" religious beliefs. Oh, wait, there's a third. People who can barely form words and sentences and suddenly see the light and feel compelled to discuss it (using words they barely understand).

"And I think the Jew alone is enough for anyone to come to their senses and recognize that there IS a God."

You've studied Christianity and that gives you insight into The Jews? Please.

And for the record, no, I'm not The Jew. And also I'm not going to discuss religion - I just "think" (in the same way you think about The Jew) that this is inappropriate.

There are people whose words are inspirational - Frchuck, Don, a handful of others. Everyone else it's judgmental, judgmental, judgmental.

Read The Holocaust Chronicle published by Louis Weber. After you've studied that, then come back and preach about what The Jews should and shouldn't expect and want and why they MIGHT want to live apart, in their own Country, with their own religion and maybe even their own language. Until then it is offensive to discuss The Jew on The Christian Board where there are no Jews posting.

And, yes, the Church of the Flying Spaghetti sounds like a good idea. It would be two for one. After we worship the Spaghetti we can eat it.

JK-


When did I give an INSIGHT to the Jew or their BELIEFS? I stated a FACT. There has been NO other peoples without a nation for 2000 years and kept their identity. I in no way had a question about the Jew nor was I ever putting them down or judging ANYONE. I stated what the Bible has said about God's chosen people... JEWS. What the BIBLE says! Not what I say. And it was GOOD stuff!! The God who never slumbers nor sleeps has his EYE on the Jews. And this is why I believe there is good proof that God is alive and his Word is true. It is EXCITING to see what God said come to pass. I'm GLAD that they have a nation... I"M GLAD they have the Hebrew language. I am FOR Israel. Not that what I am for matters. But I wasn't offensive.

My savior WAS a Jew! I love the Jews and I NEVER discussed their religion behind their backs. I quoted the Old Testament... I am sorry... is that off limits to me? Is history off limits to me?

BTW... Read your own post and then we can talk about judgmental people. And I may have trouble forming words and sentences but at least I don't ADD stuff in posts that aren't there.

Enjoy your spaghetti...

[dwashbur]

The Jew? Could you be more offensive? The Puerto Rican, the Black, are no less offensive.

[snip]

She was referring to the fact that the Jews as a people still exist, even after centuries of persecution and attempts to wipe them off the face of the earth, first by the Egyptians, then the Assyrians, then the Babylonians, the Romans, the Christians, the Nazis, the Soviet Union, you name an empire, they've tried to wipe out the Jews and erase them from existence. Not one has succeeded. That suggests, at least to Tess and many others, that there really is a God watching over them and keeping them intact as a people. Actually, I believe she said as much further down in her post. Coming after her like this is, I believe, a misrepresentation of her words and her post. If you look at the entirety of what she said, she was saying there is something special in God's eyes about the Jews, and He has a special love for them that is shown by their continued existence despite every effort to destroy them. That's a tribute, not a critique or a slam. I'm afraid you have not accurately represented her words. Theologically I may or may not agree with her, but if you're going to try to nail her like this, at least do her the courtesy of addressing what she really said.

[TUT317]

I'm just asking innocently here. Why should I believe in something like that if there really is no evidence? I feel like I WANT to believe but It doesn't seem rational at all to me. Right now I believe in evolution. But apparently there's also no evidence of evolution. I just want proof. If you know of any proof of any deity (people sharing their near death experiences) or any proof of evolution, please share. ALSO: is it ok to believe in Jesus and not god? Or believe in Jesus and god but also believe in evolution? Thanks

Hi Annabear

Religion and science are asking two different questions when it comes to the one subject of study.

Science is only interested in how things function. In other words, science tries to explain the world in terms of how things work. This is like explaining how the internal combustion engine works. If we want to know why the engine works then we study each of the moving parts of the engine. What we end up with is an explanation of how and why the engine works.

The important point is that we are not interested in WHO ACTUALLY BUILT the engine. We can explain the working of the engine without the need to consider who built it. This is what evolution does. It gives us an explanation in terms of FUNCTION. Science is interested in explaining how the universe FUNCTIONS.

If we want to consider PURPOSE then we are interested in WHO ACTUALLY BUILT IT. In the case of the universe, it becomes a question of who actually built it and why. This is what religion does.

So far we can see two attempts at answer the same question, but we end up with two different explanations. Why? The answer is quite simple. We are asking different questions. We can ask a question in terms of PURPOSE or we can ask a question in terms of FUNCTION.

If you ask the right question then you will get the right answer. So what is the right question? Roughly speaking,at our present state of knowledge about the universe, no one knows the right question to ask.
In other words, we need an answer that will explain both function and purpose at the same time. There is no such explanation at the moment.

The error a lot of people make is to assume that function will provide an explanation for purpose and purpose will provide an explanation for function. Once we assume this then all sorts of confusions result.

This is a rough explanation but it may provide a beginning for a more refined understanding of the problem.

[JudyKayTee]

[ Actually, I believe she said as much further down in her post. Coming after her like this is, I believe, a misrepresentation of her words and her post. If you look at the entirety of what she said, she was saying there is something special in God's eyes about the Jews, and He has a special love for them that is shown by their continued existence despite every effort to destroy them. That's a tribute, not a critique or a slam. I'm afraid you have not accurately represented her words. Theologically I may or may not agree with her, but if you're going to try to nail her like this, at least do her the courtesy of addressing what she really said.

Thank you - this is why I don't ever "argue" religion. People who have an agenda twist and turn words to fit that agenda.

I appreciate your courtesy.

[JudyKayTee]

I BTW....Read your own post and then we can talk about judgmental people. And I may have trouble forming words and sentences but at least I don't ADD stuff in posts that aren't there.

Enjoy your spaghetti....

As usual when you and I discuss anything you've gone off and over the top.

Please stop using caps - it's the same as shouting at me.

Your "I may have trouble forming words and sentences ..." is, of course, a carry over from a very old argument/discussion we had, which argument/discussion you apparently can't get beyond. I'll have to dig up your "apology" over that thread.

An example of how The Christian moves on?

[classyT]

As usual when you and I discuss anything you've gone off and over the top.

Please stop using caps - it's the same as shouting at me.

Your "I may have trouble forming words and sentences ..." is, of course, a carry over from a very old argument/discussion we had, which argument/discussion you apparently can't get beyond. I'll have to dig up your "apology" over that thread.

An example of how The Christian moves on?

Let's review, you attacked my post, you said I was insulting, you misrepresented my words and I'm the one that isn't moving on and over the top in my response. Hello? Can anyone say "projection?

A christian is a human being with feelings. It doesn't mean I'm suppose to just lay down and let anyone say what they want to about me or my post.

I have no clue what you are talking about in regards to me having trouble forming words and sentences in some old discussion. I just repeated it because you said it in this thread. You dig up whatever it is you need to. Unlike you, I don't have it anywhere to dig up. I did move on. I'd say this is the classic case of the pot calling the kettle black.

[JudyKayTee]

I have no clue what you are talking about in regards to me having trouble forming words and sentences in some old discussion. I just repeated it because you said it in this thread..

Here's what you said: "And I may have trouble forming words and sentences ..."

Where did I say that?

[classyT]

JK..

Sigh... thanks for digging that up. I guess you have moved on... my bad.


I posted in this thread to answer the OP question. Incidentally, I didn't read your answer to the OP.

Anyway.. I stand by my thoughts. I believe the Jewish people are what proves God's word is truth.

[JudyKayTee]

JK..

sigh...thanks for digging that up. I guess you have moved on...my bad.


I posted in this thread to answer the OP question. Incidently, I didn't read your answer to the OP.

Anyway..i stand by my thoughts. I believe the Jewish people are what proves God's word is truth.

Dig it up? It's #32, several posts above this. Where do you think you said it or can't you remember what you post from hour to hour? Apparently you don't because #37 says, "I have no clue what you are talking about in regards to me having trouble forming words and sentences in some old discussion."

At least you now say Jewish people and not The Jews.