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    speechlesstx's Avatar
    speechlesstx Posts: 1,111, Reputation: 284
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    #41

    Jul 30, 2012, 02:38 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by tomder55 View Post
    A Nobel Endorsement by former Polish President - 06:30 p.m. CET (11:30 a.m. EST) - Lech Walesa, the Nobel Prize winner and former Polish president, “has effectively endorsed Romney.”

    “I wish you to be successful because this success is needed to the United States, of course, but to Europe and the rest of the world, too. Gov Romney, get your success – be successful,” Walesa told Romney, according to a translator.
    And this was by someone that actually EARNED his Nobel.
    NeedKarma's Avatar
    NeedKarma Posts: 10,635, Reputation: 1706
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    #42

    Jul 30, 2012, 02:40 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by speechlesstx View Post
    And this was by someone that actually EARNED his Nobel.
    Your guy is a shoe-in then. Congrats!
    excon's Avatar
    excon Posts: 21,482, Reputation: 2992
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    #43

    Jul 30, 2012, 03:42 PM
    Hello again,

    Romney follows up insults in London with straight-up racism in Israel.

    As I come here and I look out over this city and consider the accomplishments of the people of this nation, I recognize the power of at least culture and a few other things. …

    As you come here and you see the GDP per capita, for instance, in Israel which is about $21,000 dollars, and compare that with the GDP per capita just across the areas managed by the Palestinian Authority, which is more like $10,000 per capita, you notice such a dramatically stark difference in economic vitality.
    Rightly, Palestinians were offended by the comment. Tying Israel's economic advantage to cultural superiority rather than acknowledging the geopolitical realities affecting the region is not only racist, it's downright ignorant, they said. Saeb Erekat, top authority in the Palestinian Authority, said:

    It is a racist statement and this man doesn't realize that the Palestinian economy cannot reach its potential because there is an Israeli occupation.

    It seems to me this man lacks information, knowledge, vision and understanding of this region and its people. He also lacks knowledge about the Israelis themselves. I have not heard any Israeli official speak about cultural superiority.
    Looks like THAT situation ain't going to get fixed if he's elected president..

    What is Steve fond of saying, you can't make this stuff up?

    Excon
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,742, Reputation: 346
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    #44

    Jul 30, 2012, 04:11 PM
    One would think that the Gaza Strip would be thriving now that there is no 'occupation' . Romney is not only right ,but he was understated . The Palestinians will never prosper as long as they cling to their anti-semitic hate .

    The Palestinian economy will never be fixed while they waste their resources on the goal of the destruction of Israel,and investing their faith in corrupt leaders like Saeb Erekat. He more than any other Palestinian is the reason why the negotiations with Israel always falls short of any real progress.

    There was nothing offensive or new in Romney's observation. His words echo UN's Arab Human Development Reports, written by Arab authors , who have noted the lack of freedom, education, women's rights, and other factors holding back the Arab world.
    AHDR Reports: Detailed Contents
    He should though give props to Prime Minister Salam Fayyad who has actually been working on solutions to increase educational and economic development in the West Bank rather than simply blaming “Israeli occupation” for all their woes. .
    excon's Avatar
    excon Posts: 21,482, Reputation: 2992
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    #45

    Jul 30, 2012, 04:20 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by tomder55 View Post
    One would think that the Gaza Strip would be thriving now that there is no 'occupation' . Romney is not only right ,but he was understated .
    Quote Originally Posted by excon View Post
    Hello again, tom:

    Point or not, it's NOT diplomatic to criticize a country you're about to visit...

    To ME, it's more important to see how Romney operates on the world stage. So far, he's failed, and he didn't bow to anybody either.

    excon
    Hello again, tom:

    What HE, and apparently YOU, don't understand, is that even if it may be FACT, it's NOT the way to fix it.. In fact, it's the way to screw it up during your entire presidency.. Romney does NOT get that.. He seems unable to take off his business mans hat, and wear the presidential hat.

    I'd RATHER he kept his MOUTH shut and just bowed!

    excon
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,742, Reputation: 346
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    #46

    Jul 30, 2012, 04:29 PM
    He should tell it like it is . Nothing destabilizes more than not being sure what a world leader thinks. Do really think it's helpful to the region that the sitting President of the US is not clear on such basic issues as where the Capital of Israel is ?
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,742, Reputation: 346
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    #47

    Jul 30, 2012, 04:36 PM
    excon's Avatar
    excon Posts: 21,482, Reputation: 2992
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    #48

    Jul 30, 2012, 04:57 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by tomder55 View Post
    He should tell it like it is . Nothing destabilizes more than not being sure what a world leader thinks.
    Hello again, tom:

    In my view, telling the Arabs/Palestinians that they're NOT on the cultural level of the Jews, all by itself, destabilizes the world pretty good..

    Where did you study diplomacy? Montgomery wards?

    excon
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,742, Reputation: 346
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    #49

    Jul 30, 2012, 05:37 PM
    If the shoe fits.. wear it . When the Israelis left Gaza ,they left thriving businesses intact. Jewish organizations from Israel, USA, and around the world set up the means for the population to support themselves. It took the Palestinians hours to trash them and the chance for a useful existence with it.
    The only export business they have are rockets fired at Israeli elementary schools.


    Perhaps if Romney visits Palestine he can talk smooth and cuddly and sooth their bruised egos. He was speaking to an Israeli audience ,and to an American audience.
    He has sent a clear signal that he is a friend of Israel ;something the current administration had trouble with.
    paraclete's Avatar
    paraclete Posts: 2,706, Reputation: 173
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    #50

    Jul 31, 2012, 05:30 AM
    How tiresome can this get? He insulted the Brits, he insulted the Palestinians, he managed an endoresement from a pole from the archives, and next, wait for it, he will say he had a successful visit. Well he shored up the jewish vote, if there is one in Republican circles, and now we know he has foreign relations credentials. I feel very sad for the american people

    Where do you get these cretians from?
    excon's Avatar
    excon Posts: 21,482, Reputation: 2992
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    #51

    Jul 31, 2012, 05:44 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by tomder55 View Post
    if the shoe fits ..wear it .
    Hello again, tom:

    I know you LIKE what he's saying, and you want to get stuff off your chest, but I don't believe that YOU believe a president should go around the world saying stuff like that...

    If I'm wrong and you think he SHOULD, I've misjudged you.

    excon
    speechlesstx's Avatar
    speechlesstx Posts: 1,111, Reputation: 284
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    #52

    Jul 31, 2012, 07:06 AM
    Behind me stands a wall that encircles the free sectors of this city, part of a vast system of barriers that divides the entire continent of Europe. From the Baltic, south, those barriers cut across Germany in a gash of barbed wire, concrete, dog runs, and guard towers. Farther south, there may be no visible, no obvious wall. But there remain armed guards and checkpoints all the same--still a restriction on the right to travel, still an instrument to impose upon ordinary men and women the will of a totalitarian state. Yet it is here in Berlin where the wall emerges most clearly; here, cutting across your city, where the news photo and the television screen have imprinted this brutal division of a continent upon the mind of the world. Standing before the Brandenburg Gate, every man is a German, separated from his fellow men. Every man is a Berliner, forced to look upon a scar.

    ..

    Where four decades ago there was rubble, today in West Berlin there is the greatest industrial output of any city in Germany--busy office blocks, fine homes and apartments, proud avenues, and the spreading lawns of parkland. Where a city's culture seemed to have been destroyed, today there are two great universities, orchestras and an opera, countless theaters, and museums. Where there was want, today there's abundance--food, clothing, automobiles--the wonderful goods of the Ku'damm. From devastation, from utter ruin, you Berliners have, in freedom, rebuilt a city that once again ranks as one of the greatest on earth. The Soviets may have had other plans. But my friends, there were a few things the Soviets didn't count on--Berliner Herz, Berliner Humor, ja, und Berliner Schnauze. [Berliner heart, Berliner humor, yes, and a Berliner Schnauze.]

    In the 1950s, Khrushchev predicted: "We will bury you." But in the West today, we see a free world that has achieved a level of prosperity and well-being unprecedented in all human history. In the Communist world, we see failure, technological backwardness, declining standards of health, even want of the most basic kind--too little food. Even today, the Soviet Union still cannot feed itself. After these four decades, then, there stands before the entire world one great and inescapable conclusion: Freedom leads to prosperity. Freedom replaces the ancient hatreds among the nations with comity and peace. Freedom is the victor.

    And now the Soviets themselves may, in a limited way, be coming to understand the importance of freedom. We hear much from Moscow about a new policy of reform and openness. Some political prisoners have been released. Certain foreign news broadcasts are no longer being jammed. Some economic enterprises have been permitted to operate with greater freedom from state control.

    Are these the beginnings of profound changes in the Soviet state? Or are they token gestures, intended to raise false hopes in the West, or to strengthen the Soviet system without changing it? We welcome change and openness; for we believe that freedom and security go together, that the advance of human liberty can only strengthen the cause of world peace. There is one sign the Soviets can make that would be unmistakable, that would advance dramatically the cause of freedom and peace.

    General Secretary Gorbachev, if you seek peace, if you seek prosperity for the Soviet Union and Eastern Europe, if you seek liberalization: Come here to this gate! Mr. Gorbachev, open this gate! Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!
    Yes, we need a leader who should be going around the world saying stuff like that.
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,325, Reputation: 10855
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    #53

    Jul 31, 2012, 08:10 AM
    Mitt ain't the one, not even close. I know you aren't comparing the two are you?
    speechlesstx's Avatar
    speechlesstx Posts: 1,111, Reputation: 284
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    #54

    Jul 31, 2012, 08:16 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by talaniman View Post
    Mitt ain't the one, not even close. I know you aren't comparing the two are you??
    Ex: "I don't believe that YOU believe a president should go around the world saying stuff like that..."

    Yes we should. Reagan was a great example of why we should. But no, I don't compare anyone to Reagan.
    excon's Avatar
    excon Posts: 21,482, Reputation: 2992
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    #55

    Jul 31, 2012, 08:35 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by speechlesstx View Post
    Ex: "I don't believe that YOU believe a president should go around the world saying stuff like that..."

    Yes we should. Reagan was a great example of why we should.
    Hello again, Steve:

    Telling the Palestinians that their culture doesn't measure up, ISN'T like telling Gorbachov to tear down the wall...

    Are you NOT able to make the distinction??

    excon
    speechlesstx's Avatar
    speechlesstx Posts: 1,111, Reputation: 284
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    #56

    Jul 31, 2012, 08:56 AM
    "As you come here and you see the GDP per capita, for instance, in Israel which is about $21,000 dollars, and compare that with the GDP per capita just across the areas managed by the Palestinian Authority, which is more like $10,000 per capita, you notice such a dramatically stark difference in economic vitality," Romney told a group of Jewish donors at a Jerusalem fundraiser that netted more than $1 million for his campaign.
    In the 1950s, Khrushchev predicted: "We will bury you." But in the West today, we see a free world that has achieved a level of prosperity and well-being unprecedented in all human history. In the Communist world, we see failure, technological backwardness, declining standards of health, even want of the most basic kind--too little food. Even today, the Soviet Union still cannot feed itself.
    Like two peas in a pod. But I'm sure you're going to blame the Palestinians plight on the Israelis and not a culture whose sole ambition is eliminate Israel. Like tom said, Israel left them an infrastructure and they laid waste to it.

    Arab Israelis have equal rights and I'm sure have it much better. You have a culture that assures freedom and equal rights for its citizens and one whose singular focus is the destruction of Israel. Which one measures up?
    excon's Avatar
    excon Posts: 21,482, Reputation: 2992
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    #57

    Jul 31, 2012, 09:00 AM
    Hello again, Steve:

    I'll try ONE more time, but if you keep on mixing up what's SO, with what a presidential candidate should SAY, I'm out of here.

    I'll ask you again, can you NOT make that distinction??

    Oh, never mind..

    excon
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,325, Reputation: 10855
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    #58

    Jul 31, 2012, 10:00 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by speechlesstx View Post
    Like two peas in a pod. But I'm sure you're going to blame the Palestinians plight on the Israelis and not a culture whose sole ambition is eliminate Israel. Like tom said, Israel left them an infrastructure and they laid waste to it.

    Arab Israelis have equal rights and I'm sure have it much better. You have a culture that assures freedom and equal rights for its citizens and one whose singular focus is the destruction of Israel. Which one measures up?
    There was no Israel before 1948. Palestinians got along with Hebrews just fine before the Jewish government decided that the Palestinians were second class citizens.
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    tomder55 Posts: 1,742, Reputation: 346
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    #59

    Jul 31, 2012, 11:08 AM
    The American Jewish population should closely observe the Palestinian- American progressive alliance ;and vote accordingly. I hope the President uses that exact wording on the campaign trail. By the way ;that is just factually incorrect. Israel predates most Western nations (established 1020–931 BCE) ,and certainly the concept of a 'Palestinian people.'
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,325, Reputation: 10855
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    #60

    Jul 31, 2012, 01:28 PM
    Israel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Following the adoption of a resolution by the General Assembly of the United Nations on 29 November 1947, recommending the adoption and implementation of the United Nations partition plan of Mandatory Palestine, on 14 May 1948 David Ben-Gurion, the Executive Head of the World Zionist Organization[8] and president of the Jewish Agency for Palestine, declared the establishment of a Jewish state in Eretz Israel, to be known as the State of Israel, a state independent from the British Mandate for Palestine.[9][10][11]
    The notion of the "Land of Israel", known in Hebrew as Eretz Yisrael (or Eretz Yisroel), has been important and sacred to the Jewish people since Biblical times. According to the Torah, God promised the land to the three Patriarchs of the Jewish people.[33][34] On the basis of scripture, the period of the three Patriarchs has been placed somewhere in the early 2nd millennium BCE,[35] and the first Kingdom of Israel was established around the 11th century BCE. Subsequent Israelite kingdoms and states ruled intermittently over the next four hundred years, and are known from various extra-biblical sources.[36][37][38][39]
    The northern Kingdom of Israel, as well as Philistine city states fell in 722 BCE, though the southern Kingdom of Judah and several Phoenician city states continued their existence as the region came under Assyrian rule. With the emergence of Babylonians, Judah was eventually conquered as well.
    Lets not confuse ancient tribal affiliations with modern national sovereignty.

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