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excon · Jul 12, 2012, 06:45 AM

Hello:

Man stands his ground and refuses to cooperate with immigration check points. What do you think of his action? Hero, or bum?

How Many Checkpoints in One Morning?! Welcome to the Police State! - YouTube

excon

Wondergirl · Jul 12, 2012, 06:57 AM

Definitely hero!!

excon · Jul 12, 2012, 08:08 AM

Hi Carol:

He's a braver soul than I, but I LOVE him. He's an inspiration to all freedom loving Americans out there.. IF I get stopped, I HOPE I have the balls to resist like him..

I AM surprised that they didn't pull him out of the window, mace him, taze him, and beat the sh!t out of him.. I'm not used to cops who get told NO, and then do NOTHING...

Did you know that there a whole YouTube channel devoted to these guys?? I didn't..

checkpointusa - YouTube

excon

speechlesstx · Jul 12, 2012, 08:14 AM

Gutsy, but not a hero, and that whether I-8 never intersects the border is irrelevant. I've driven it and it hugs the border close enough to throw a rock into Mexico at one point.

The Border Patrol has "wide discretion" to send him to a secondary check for further questioning. They didn't push it but they could have. I understand the frustration but why not just whip out your license and go on?

excon · Jul 12, 2012, 08:22 AM

Originally Posted by speechlesstx

but why not just whip out your license and go on?

Hello again, Steve:

I'm surprised at your post.. I guess I shouldn't be. But, I thought I remembered a while ago when you were decrying cops behavior about something similar...

Why NOT whip out your license?? Because to DO so would ENCOURAGE the federal government to continue to VIOLATE the Constitution... Don't you complain about Obama and how he tears up the Constitution?? But, when the rubber meets the road, you right wingers are OK with the violations... You only TALK the TALK..

excon

speechlesstx · Jul 12, 2012, 08:34 AM

What is the constitutional violation, ex? SCOTUS has ruled the way I described so what's your point? Should I be pissed enough at the Obamacare ruling and defy it?

It's gutsy, but what's the point? Don't we have a right to protect our border? Geez, never mind, what was I thinking there?

excon · Jul 12, 2012, 08:41 AM

Originally Posted by speechlesstx

Don't we have a right to protect our border? Geez, never mind, what was I thinking there?

Hello again, Steve:

I don't know what you were thinking.. These stops didn't happen at the border. They happened INSIDE these great United States of America, where we have (had) the RIGHT to be free from unreasonable searches. Driving on an American highway, minding your own business does NOT rise to probable cause or reasonable suspicion.

Nonetheless, as much as I know about the Constitution, I am UNAWARE of a ruling that makes these stops Constitutional. Would you link me?

excon

speechlesstx · Jul 12, 2012, 08:53 AM

I don't think questioning is the same as "unreasonable searches" is it? And illegals? They only travel across deserts on foot, there would never be any reason to suspect there might be illegal activities on roads close to the border?

"Border Patrol agents at checkpoints have legal authority that agents do not have when patrolling areas away from the border. The United States Supreme Court ruled that Border Patrol agents may stop a vehicle at fixed checkpoints for brief questioning of its occupants even if there is no reason to believe that the particular vehicle contains illegal aliens.[4] The Court further held that Border Patrol agents "have wide discretion" to refer motorists selectively to a secondary inspection area for additional brief questioning.[5] In contrast, the Supreme Court held that Border Patrol agents on roving patrol may stop a vehicle only if they have reasonable suspicion that the vehicle contains aliens who may be illegally in the United States—a higher threshold for stopping and questioning motorists than at checkpoints.[6] The constitutional threshold for searching a vehicle is the same, however, and must be supported by either consent or probable cause, whether in the context of a roving patrol or a checkpoint search.[7]"

I never said I liked checkpoints - of any kind - but if you don't like it change the constitution or SCOTUS' mind, they're a perfectly legal if inconvenient fact of life. I'm just not about civil disobedience for the sake of civil disobedience.

excon · Jul 12, 2012, 09:03 AM

Hello again, Steve:

We're going to hell. You wingers talk about socialism, while fascism is growing under our feet.

The WAY you change SCOTUS's mind, IS to civilly DISOBEY.. Laying down for them, like you suggest we do, only tells SCOTUS that you're FINE with the ruling, which you ARE...

excon

speechlesstx · Jul 12, 2012, 09:22 AM

So in other words it doesn't really violate the constitution as you claimed.

Look, there are 2 permanent checkpoints on I-8, one in California and one in Arizona. Does he not know this yet? I'm for protecting our borders, you lefties just don't care who comes in, who votes where and I'm sorry but this is much ado about nothing. He knows the checkpoint is there, videotaping yourself purposely being defiant is just provoking. That doesn't make him a hero.

excon · Jul 12, 2012, 09:36 AM

Originally Posted by speechlesstx

So in other words it doesn't really violate the constitution as you claimed.

Hello again, Steve:

Let's be CLEAR.. It was RULED Constitutional. Nonetheless, I can read. I KNOW what our rights are, where they came from, WHY we have them, and most importantly, what the government needs to do to overcome them.

Searching people at random simply because of where they are, does NOT rise to the level required by the Constitution. It just doesn't.

Now, you accuse me of saying this because I want anybody to cross the border anytime they want, and invade our country... That's offensive. I guess I shouldn't expect you to know me any better than you do.

excon

tomder55 · Jul 12, 2012, 09:46 AM

At points in eastern Imperial County, the border is less than 0.5 miles south of the Interstate.

Wondergirl · Jul 12, 2012, 09:49 AM

Was this at one of those two checkpoints? Is there a side road so to avoid them? The driver wasn't going into Mexico he said, but just minding his own business driving to work within the US.

speechlesstx · Jul 12, 2012, 09:54 AM

Originally Posted by excon

Searching people at random simply because of where they are, does NOT rise to the level required by the Constitution. It just doesn't.

For what, the third time now? No one is "searching." These checkpoints did not change the criteria for a search, but I already said that. Is it illegal to question or check for ID at a checkpoint?

Now, you accuse me of saying this because I want anybody to cross the border anytime they want, and invade our country... That's offensive. I guess I shouldn't expect you to know me any better than you do.

You most obviously don't think anyone should have to prove they have the right to vote and if I recall, you object to just about every other effort at enforcing our immigrations laws so what other conclusion can I draw?

Like I said, like it or not he knows these checkpoints are there and I doubt seriously this band of rebels is going to change SCOTUS' mind without taking it to court. But we've been there, done that and it's pretty well settled law so good luck. There is no illegal search taking place that I'm aware of so that's a straw man.

speechlesstx · Jul 12, 2012, 09:55 AM

Originally Posted by Wondergirl

Was this at one of those two checkpoints? Is there a side road so to avoid them? The driver wasn't going into Mexico he said, but just minding his own business driving to work within the US.

Does it matter?

excon · Jul 12, 2012, 09:58 AM

Originally Posted by tomder55

At points in eastern Imperial County, the border is less than 0.5 miles south of the Interstate.

Hello again, tom:

The KEY is that it's INSIDE the United States, where I'm a sovereign citizen with the right to move about FREELY - or so I thought.. If they can fudge a half mile, why can't they fudge a mile, or 10? How about 100? That would include Seattle. I'm not far from the border. Why SHOULDN'T they be doing those checks here?

I have NO problem with guarding the BORDER.. But, this highway AIN'T the border.

excon

Wondergirl · Jul 12, 2012, 09:58 AM

Originally Posted by speechlesstx

Does it matter?

Yes. If I am going into or leaving Mexico, okay then. I agree to be checked at the US-Canadian border too. But driving and staying completely within the US? NO!!

As a former NYer, I often visited Niagara Falls. You're saying US visitors to the American side can all be stopped and checked.

Fr_Chuck · Jul 12, 2012, 10:17 AM

DUI and safety check points are normal and used often in various areas. They ( are suppose to) randomly check a certain number of cars, every 5th or what ever. Check for drivers license and insurance and proper tags ( and car inspections in areas that have that)

Many states have laws allowing these. Normally a person not pulling over when told would be ticketed or even arrested for not following the directions of a officer.

Wondergirl · Jul 12, 2012, 10:19 AM

This wasn't a random check. EVERY car was to be checked, and usually a checkpoint is looking for something. What were these police looking for?

excon · Jul 12, 2012, 10:24 AM

Hello again,

What blows my mind, is that you righty's are FINE with these intrusions on your private life, and don't see ANY Constitutional incursions - NONE!

Whereas, you scream and moan about Obama's SOCIALISTIC unconstitutional administration. But, I can't find ANYTHING he did that was even CLOSE to unconstitutional...

excon