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 Originally Posted by Bearandfox
All breeds have issues. You will never find a breed that doesn't have genetic issues, no matter how good the breeder is. As for bloat. There really is nothing you can do to prevent it, as no one knows what really causes it. Research has shown that deep chested breeds are at a higher risk for bloat. It can happen at any age. There are signs that may indicate bloat, but, bloat can kill in as little as 6 hours after symptoms start. If you see indications of bloat, vet care must be immediate. That day, that second. With immediate vet care, many dogs survive bloat. Having said that, it's not a huge concern with labs. Not saying that labs are immune to bloat, but it's not something that would cause me concern. It's not something that would make me discount the lab breed. |
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Originally Posted by Bearandfox
Bloat is deadly, but so are many other things. Parvo is the number one killer in my opinion. There will always be concerns, but with proper vet care, food, exercise, immunizations, you should be okay. My lab cross lived to 16 years. That's very old for a larger breed dog. The larger the breed the shorter the life span. Most labs live to around 10-12 years of age. It really depends on the dog, the owner, and the care. But, there will always be the risk that something you didn't expect could happen. It's the same with people though. Life will always be a gamble. |
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Wow! Your lab mix must have lived a long and healthy live. What did you do to keep her so healthy? How often do you recommend bringing labs to the vet? How many walks a day and how long? How often must you brush your lab? Is there any way to prevent elbow and hip displacia?
Thanks for all your help! -Bearandfox |
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I'm a BIG German Shepherd fan. Great dogs and I've owned a number of them. They are dogs that need a leader, not for the faint of heart. I had one that bloated. My Vet told me any broad chested dog can bloat. Some breeds are more susceptible than others.
As far as biting - I'm a liability investigator. I investigate more Lab bites than any other breed. Part of it is that people just "assume" the dog is gentle and walk up to it. Part off it is that there are lots of labs out there. Homeowners Insurance can be a problem - make certain that your company will insure you with whatever breed you get. "Pits" are an issue, also Dobermans and Rotts. |
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Originally Posted by Bearandfox
Here's a great link explaining bloat, the symptoms, etc. Don't let it scare you too much. Bloat is possible, but so are many things, for anyone, not only dogs. You get what you get in life. Don't spend every waking minute worrying about possibilities that may never happen. When you get your puppy, or dog, enjoy every minute, make sure he/she gets the proper care, make sure you have the money set aside for unexpected vet bills, and do the very best for your dog, just like you would for your kids. But don't let every single possibility scare you. If you do that then having a dog in your family won't be anything but stress. Trust me, puppies will and do get into all sorts of things. If I had a dime for every time one of my dogs ate something "deadly", or had symptoms of something "deadly", and I panicked, I would be rich. Not that I'm not concerned when it happens, I am, and a trip to the vet is always the first thing I do. But I've learned to accept that dogs are a lot more resilient then we think. Just like people. :) Chances are that you'll have at least one huge vet bill during the life or your dog. He/she will swallow something, or have symptoms of something. But, most times a pets life isn't really that stressful. It's shots, spay or neuter, checkups, and the occasional worry about a swallowed chicken bone (feed cotton balls or bread and watch for choking), and other minor issues. You could get a dog that has nothing but issues, it does happen. Just like some people have nothing but health problems. But that's not the norm, despite what you hear. If you're prepared, and ready to accept that the vet will be a part of your dogs care, and that you will need to put aside money for anything unexpected that could occur, you'll be fine. But most people have a long happy life with their fur babies. |
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Originally Posted by Bearandfox
We never fed our lab wet food, only dry dog food. When he died he had all of his own teeth, never once had them cleaned by the vet, and the vet always said, until the day he died "he has the teeth of a 2 year old dog". So I would highly recommend dry dog food, no matter what breed you choose. We walked him every day, twice a day, for an hour or more when he was younger. When he started getting older he suffered from arthritis. For the last year or so of his life he no longer had daily walks. We left it up to him to choose when he felt well enough to go for a stroll. We went for our yearly immunizations, and whenever we were concerned about his health. But I have to say, in all his 16 years, we only had a few emergencies. One was when he was hit by a car. Four hundred dollars just to go through the door of the emergency vet, because it happened on a weekend, only to be told that he was fine. Another emergency trip was when we took him on a bike ride. Us on the bike, him running with us. We'd done it hundreds of times before. That day he stumbled and tore his paw pad. We rushed him to the vet. They cut off the paw pad, bandaged it, and within a few weeks the paw pad grew back. A paw pad is a lot like a human fingernail. He suffered from seizures, which is a concern with labs. They are genetically predisposed to epilepsy. After medication, and a lot of stress, we saw a holistic vet that prescribed green beans. After we gave green beans he was seizure free for the last 8 years of his life, no other meds. Other then that, his life was pretty uneventful health wise. As for hip and elbow displacia, that's largely genetics. It really depends on where you get your puppy, and what testing they do. A legit breeder will test for genetic issues that are prominent in the breed they're breeding. If the two parents have no genetic predisposition to hip or elbow displacia, then it's not likely that they pups will have that disorder. That doesn't mean that it's impossible for that condition to be present though. If you get a dog from a shelter, or a mixed breed, you won't know what the parents were like. But, mixed breeds usually have fewer issues, in my opinion. My border collie mix was a rescue, and our lab was not from a legit breeder, it was an oops litter from a friend. Both lived long happy lives. |
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You have described the ideal breed.
I have a lab and it's basically my dream dog. I have a chocolate lab but when he was younger we sent him to a training camp for two weeks which helped a tonn! He came back a totally trained dog but he is so loyal and has grown up to be my best friend and he loves to snuggle! Labs are the most loyal dog breed there is and they are trainable but it's not all fun and games. Remember to treat it fairly and like your best friend and he/she will become yours! Labs are definitely best. |
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I do have to add. I've never owned a German Shepherd. All the GSD's I've been involved with were owned by others. I also have to add that my husband's one and only incident of biting was with his Aunts German Shepherd. They put the dog down because of that bite, it was the 4th bite from that dog, and my husbands incident ended with stitches. The only thing my husband had done to the dog was sit next to him in the grass on the farm his Aunt owned. I'm really not saying they're a bad breed. I'm just telling you my experiences. I love the GSD breed. They're gorgeous dogs. I'm not afraid of the breed, and I'm not against the breed. I think they're great dogs. Just not for a novice owner.
I also have to add that in the 16 years that Indy, our lab mix, was with us, he never so much as growled at us. He was 3 years old when the kids came along. My son learned to walk by pulling up on Indy. That poor dog put up with a lot, and never so much as snarled at either of the kids. The kids in the neighborhood would climb on his back (something I put a stop to as soon as I saw it), and never so much as a mean look from Indy. They would take food out of his mouth. He'd just open his mouth and let them have whatever he was eating. Three of our neighbors ended up getting labs because of Indy and his temperament. But again, he wasn't a purebred lab, but he was mixed with border collie another breed I would not recommend to a novice owner. ;) He was by far the easiest dog I've ever had in my life. Easy to train, easy going, great temperament, and overall just a great family member. Labs are abundant where I live, and they are the easiest dogs to adopt, and sadly the most easily found dogs in shelters because there are so many of them. Many of the larger breeds have restrictions, but not labs, at least not in my area. I can honestly say that in all my years working with dogs, and having dogs, I have not once had an issue with labs. |
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Originally Posted by Bearandfox
In the end only you can choose the dog that fits your family and lifestyle the best. We can make recommendations, and we can alleviate some of your fears, but the choice is ultimately up to you. I also have to say that every dog, despite the breed, is different. Just like people. I've had two lab border collie crosses. Our Indy who was more lab than anything, and our Jasper that was more border collie than lab, and now we have our little Rascal, a 4 month old border collie mix. He may be even more pigheaded then our beagle, and I didn't think anyone could top Chewy (the beagle) for pigheadedness. Indy and Jasper were both very easy to train, from puppyhood on. Rascal is proving to be a bit more difficult. That's why I said to the other poster that I both agree and disagree that breed isn't everything. Breed does count for a lot. If you get a beagle, you can research the breed and know a bit of what to expect. For instance, beagles are not easily trained, they are hound dogs, scent dogs, and can never be let off leash no matter what. They are stubborn to a fault. The saying is "if you can survive the first year with a beagle you can handle anything". Sadly, most people get this breed because they see them on TV, they're cute as all get out, they're a smaller breed, great with kids, and have very few genetic health issues. But, once you get that puppy home, you realize it's not as easy to train a beagle as you thought. Many beagles are given away before they have their first birthday. Our beagle is 3 years old, and he's the only dog I've ever had that's literally made me say "What the heck? What's wrong with you!" Stubborn to a fault, and I'm German, I know stubborn. ;) A lot will depend on training, your knowledge, your ability to teach the dog. If you don't put in the time, no matter what breed you get, you won't have a great family member. But, some breeds are easier than others. |
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Originally Posted by Sariss
Speaking of bloat and GDV.. there are ways to help prevent it that I think ALL dog owners of ALL dog breeds should practice.. First.. don't feed your dog one meal a day. Feed twice a day (morning and night). If you exercise your dog first thing in the morning, don't feed before the exercise and wait about 1-2 hours before feeding after exercise. If you purchase a breed that is prone to this, such as Great Danes, Goldens and other "deep" chested breeds, you can purchase food and water bowls that are raised. Also with these specific breeds (or mixes of), at time of spay or neuter, have their stomachs tacked to the wall of their body. Tacking the stomach isn't going to prevent it from ever happening, the chances of it happening are very low. A great family dog, in my opinion, would be an older rescue dog. A dog that is already house trained and good with kids and other pets. With an older dog, say 2-5, any genetic medical problems would have surfaced by this time. Their personality is set in stone and what you purchase is what you get. There are so many great dogs out there that would be perfect for your family. Don't get suckered into the mindframe that you have to purchase a puppy. Puppies are a lot of work and if you don't do the right things at the right moments in their lives, they can grow up to have a lot of serious behavior problems. I'm not trying to scare you away from wanting to adopt a puppy, but I also know that busy people with full time schedules with the best intentions for a young puppy, doesn't always pan out well. You shouldn't base your search on the type of breed. You should base your search on the personality of the dog, what you are wanting from a dog and so on. German Shepherds are working dogs. They need to work. Labs and Goldens are hunting dogs.. They also need to work and they need an outlet for their high energy. A lot of people think a big back yard is the ticket, its not. You need to stimulate these dogs... make them do something. A good way to get your foot in the door with what dog would best suit you and your family, would be to go to the shelter and meet some dogs. Call some rescues of the breeds you are considering and ask to come meet them... you may not like a lab... They are extremely bouncy... My opinion.. a good first time dog... would be an older mixed breed... if you find a purebred, that's fine too.. but I think older is what first time dog owners should get. Its less stressful, you know what you're getting into and a majority of the genetic problems would have shown up. |
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Originally Posted by Lucky098
Could you address this a little more - I had a GSD, bloated and "flipped" 3 times, despite tacking. I've been told high food and water bowls. I've been told low food and water bowls. Eat twice a day. Eat once a day. Don't give too much water. Don't limit the water. The ONLY thing I do is I don't allow playtime after they eat. The eat - they're quiet for at least 3 hours. No more eat and then play catch (which my neighbors do). I am aware of the genetic factor - my dog's mother and one of his littermates bloated and died. I never know the right answer for this - I know you know. What is the current feeling? My GSD is currently 138# (down from 150) and my Rott puppy is growing like crazy! I think about it every now and then. I find Labs to be crazy puppies and good adult dogs. The worst dog bite I've ever worked was a - what are the Japanese bear hunting dogs? Stalked a child and actually ripped his scalp off. I've never seen such injuries. Worse attack I've ever worked was a St. Bernard that snapped - literally snapped. I worked some sort of Pit mix that broke through a window, attacked a child, got pulled off, attacked again - neighbor ended up stabbing the dog to end the mayhem. I think the greatest dog in the world with the wrong owners turns into a dangerous dog. Anyway - I'm babbling. I'd like to know what you know about bloat. |
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I find Labs to be crazy puppies and good adult dogs. The worst dog bite I've ever worked was a - what are the Japanese bear hunting dogs? Stalked a child and actually ripped his scalp off. I've never seen such injuries.
Worse attack I've ever worked was a St. Bernard that snapped - literally snapped. I worked some sort of Pit mix that broke through a window, attacked a child, got pulled off, attacked again - neighbor ended up stabbing the dog to end the mayhem. I think the greatest dog in the world with the wrong owners turns into a dangerous dog. Anyway - I'm babbling. I'd like to know what you know about bloat. I do have to say that I agree with you when it comes to lab puppies. They're insane. But I have to say that beagles are worse. Love my beagle with all my heart, he's such a love, and I adore him, but during his first year there were many times when I wondered what I had gotten myself into. Now that he's 3 years old he's settled and become a great family dog, but we do still have issues that I never had with any of my other dogs. Walking for one. Walking Chewy is not at all fun. It's frustrating, and annoying. We're working on it, but beagles have the attention span of a gnat. The only thing that works with them is food, they're food driven. But, if their attention is diverted by an interesting smell, or something else (for Chewy it's other dogs), you could have a steak around your neck and he won't notice. Both the labs I've had have been mixes, which is most likely why I never had any of the normal lab complaints or issues. But, both of those mixes were lab and border collie. I definitely would never recommend a border collie to a novice owner. Great dogs, very intelligent, but boy oh boy, if you don't keep them amused, they'll eat your entire house, bricks included. Little stinkers, and love them to bits. :) I do agree that any dog, no matter how great the temperament, and no matter what the breed, can become a "bad" dog if it doesn't have a good owner. One of the worst bites I've ever seen, thankfully I wasn't the one bitten, was my Aunt's teacup poodle. This little guy was 2 pounds soaking wet, and vicious. My Aunt made him that way. Not on purpose, but that really doesn't matter. She never hit him, she wasn't abusive, she was just possessive. No one but her could get near the dog. One day my cousin tried to pet Rocky and Rocky bit him so hard on the finger that his teeth met in the middle. My cousin ended up losing the tip of his finger. Not the worst bite in history, but considering the size of the dog, it was pretty darn bad. |
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I wasn't asked but I'll ad my 2 cents anyway hehe.
Bloat can be treated providing treatment begins to MINUTE symptoms start. So as long as you know your dogs behaviours and know the signs to watch out for. Products like de-gass can be given to try and disperse the gass in the stomach BEFORE the twisting begins. The twisting is caused by a build up of too much gass. Once twisting begins however there is no choice but to go to the vet. And even after administering de-gass medication you still should be on your way... The medication can just help buy you a little extra time. Tacking the stomach is a waste of time. If the dog is bloating tacking can actually make the fdamage worse. If the pressure in the stomach is enough the stomach will twist with or without tacks, and with tacks they can rip out the lining of the abdomen and cause muscle damage. They CAN help if you notice the symptoms straight away as they can hold off the twisting for a period but the window IMO is not worth the pain the dog goe sthrough having the procedure done. Bloat is genetic, there is no proof of that, but every case I have seen in purebred dogs has had some link to it's ancestors. Some lines can be completely free of the problem, other run rampant with it. My parents have had Great Danes for over 20 years and have never had a dog bloat. Yet a friend of hers with dogs from another kennel has had at least half a dozen bloat over the years. There is no proof as to what helps/doesn't help but there are a lot of theories which I believe to be correct... Feeding twice a day and not big meals. This is so when the food digests in the dogs stomach it isn't a huge amount of gas. No plain dry food for large/giant breeds. This is because of the dry food swelling in the stomach, again, creating gasses. Dry food combined with wet is fine, but never dry food by itself. Feeding from an elevated bowl. This is to prevent the dog gulping down huge amounts of air as it lifts the food from its bowl. If you have ever watched a large breed eat from a bowl on the floor, they tend to quickly flick the food up and then snap at at befoew swallowing. No large amounts of water. I am unsure as to the exact reasoning on this one, I just go off how I feel after I have been for a run and then have a huge glass of water, it makes your stomach feel awful. No exercise at least an hour after meals. Again with the gasses and twisting. |
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Shazzy, your two cents are always welcome.
In fact, the experts on this site, you, Bella, Paleo, Lucky, Lady Sam, Judy, and I know I've missed some, are the people I go to first when I have issues with my dogs. I no longer trust my vet, especially since the cottonball thing! Just in case you didn't read about it, Rascal got a hold of chicken bones. We tried cottonballs, he wouldn't take them (the dog that ate half my couch would eat cottonballs!), so we did the bread. Long story short, he was fine. But when I mentioned it to our very young vet, she was shocked that I would try cottonballs, she said that it made no sense. I told her to research it. She did, and admitted she was wrong. She's a vet! She should know more than I do! This is the vet that treated Jasper. Now I have nightmares about it. I wonder if Jasper could have survived had we had a different vet. But that's done. I realize that. Still, it haunts me. :( I go to all of you first. I trust you all far more than I do my vet. I never expect a diagnosis, or treatment, but what you all have to say is far more reliable than anything else, in my opinion. Just saying. :) |
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Like Shaz I think it has a lot to do with the dog itself, but some breeds are more predisposed, the deep chested and giant breeds. Great Danes, deep chested setters, Goldens etc.
We haven't seen a bloat at our clinic in about a year (knock on wood) but believe it or not, on average over the years have seen more Rotties with bloat than any other breed. The youngest being 6 months old, that same pup bloated again within a year, his parents are very careful now. And Rotties are pretty low on the list of dogs predisposed. I've heard, bowl up, bowl down, larger bowl or baking pan to force the dogs eat slower and not gulp air. For the very reasons mentioned in Shazs' post, our surgeons don't do the gastropexy. Oops, no one asked me either. Any way I'm a big fan of mixed breeds myself. And beagles, but as you've already heard they can be a hand full. |
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Any way I'm a big fan of mixed breeds myself.
And beagles, but as you've already heard they can be a hand full. Beagles are a breed that stands far from any other. They're dumber than a post (I say that with affection), almost impossible to train. But they're so loving that you overlook all of that. We love our beagle Chewy. He's a great family member. But boy oh boy, he's a handful! ;) Then again, we have a puppy in the house. I have to say, the puppy stage is making Chewy look like like the best dog ever. :) |
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