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crzychestr · Mar 5, 2007, 10:56 PM

Please Help. I have just remodeled a basement bathroom (on slab) and moved a shower drain approximately 4' to create a drain for a tub in its place. I checked the level of the drain line to make sure that it had fall to the old shower connection in the slab and it was about a quarter of a bubble. I got the tub set up and it drains, but very slow. When all the water has drained, there is a 'glug, glug, glug' sound. I am at a loss as to what to do. I definitely do not want to cut into the slab again. Could the shower have had another p-trap and the two p-traps are making it drain slowly? Could the main waste water line and the shower drain be too close to the same level? There's only about a 1/2" clearance from the waste shoe on the tub drain to where the p-trap loops back into the new drain line - could this be the trouble? Should I elevate the tub (can't go more than 3" because of a drop ceiling and a 6'2" shower user?

Is there anything that I can do to improve the drain time? I don't have the shower head hooked up yet, so I don't know if showering will be a problem (leaving water backed up in the tub).

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

JR

nmwirez · Mar 5, 2007, 11:06 PM

Originally Posted by crzychestr

Please Help. I have just remodeled a basement bathroom (on slab) and moved a shower drain approximately 4' to create a drain for a tub in its place. I checked the level of the drain line to make sure that it had fall to the old shower connection in the slab and it was about a quarter of a bubble. I got the tub set up and it drains, but very slow. When all the water has drained, there is a 'glug, glug, glug' sound. I am at a loss as to what to do. I definitely do not want to cut into the slab again. Could the shower have had another p-trap and the two p-traps are making it drain slowly? Could the main waste water line and the shower drain be too close to the same level? There's only about a 1/2" clearance from the waste shoe on the tub drain to where the p-trap loops back into the new drain line - could this be the trouble? Should I elevate the tub (can't go more than 3" because of a drop ceiling and a 6'2" shower user?

Is there anything that I can do to improve the drain time? I don't have the shower head hooked up yet, so I don't know if showering will be a problem (leaving water backed up in the tub).

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

JR

Unfortunately a waste vent was not put in at the tub p-trap exit within 2 ft. This is why there is a poor water drainage to the main drain. The shower stall will not fix this even if it has its own waste vent to the roof. I have no good answer to this. Maybe I misunderstood your description. I hope there is another tradesman that has a solution. Good luck. Nm

doug238 · Mar 6, 2007, 06:55 PM

There was a trap under the shower. If you added a trap for the tub then you have double trapped this fixture and it is air-locking. Simple solution, one trap got to go.

iamgrowler · Mar 6, 2007, 07:00 PM

Could the shower have had another p-trap and the two p-traps are making it drain slowly?

If you have to ask...

Then you must not have removed the p-trap for the shower.

Doug's right -- A trap has to go -- And considering the four foot move, it's going to have to be the shower p-trap.

nmwirez · Mar 6, 2007, 09:45 PM

Originally Posted by iamgrowler

If you have to ask....

Then you must not have removed the p-trap for the shower.

Doug's right -- A trap has to go -- And considering the four foot move, it's going to have to be the shower p-trap.

Hey guys,
Am I missing something here? Which drain is on the high side? I pictured the new tub falling to the shower drain connection. Even taking out the p-trap in the shower, it depends on where the vent is located for the tub, doesn't it? Without a vent behind, or even two feet in front of the tub p-trap, that is a minimum placement of the vent short of a dirty arm. Am I out of touch here? Nm

doug238 · Mar 7, 2007, 10:47 AM

Yes, you are out of touch on this one. He had a shower, off the shower riser he ran a tub branch and put a trap.

nmwirez · Mar 7, 2007, 11:18 AM

Originally Posted by doug238

yes, you are out of touch on this one. he had a shower, off the shower riser he ran a tub branch and put a trap.

Thanks for the clarification on this. I guess learning the trade in an open shop caused some over design in my thinking. I will try harder not to refer to dirty arms, that was a mistake if you can forgive me on that one. Somewhere in my old brain I remember that a horizontal branch in a two fixture drain hookup had to be less that 5 ft. without venting. In this case, slab floor layouts demand more attention for combination vent stack setups because of cleanout requirements to a straight run. The poster did not mention a cleanout in the 2" pipe minimum horizontal run. This is what I was taught for using a roof vent for a cleanout within 2 ft. of the highest fixture of a that run. I believe this was local code though. Thanks.

Hey JR,

There may be a possible solution now that doug has jarred my memory banks. Did you install the cleanout (UPC) for a tub to shower horizontal branch? You can break in there and extend up for a vertical cleanout-vent possibly making the correction easier? Depends on what you have though. Just a thought. Nm

crzychestr · Mar 7, 2007, 07:18 PM

Wow - you folks are extremely helpful. Thanks for all the responses to my problem. When I busted out the shower drain, I only hammered out enough to make a clean connection for the run to the new tub drain. Now the drain line is back under concrete with an exit at a 9"X12" sump area for connections to the tub drain. I bought a Studor mini-vent and will try to hook that into the line on the downward side of the p-trap. Would that alleviate the slow drain and the 'glug, glug, glug' sound at the end? Is it likely that I have two p-traps in the line and I just didn't uncover enough with the shower demo to see it?

The arrangement is currently: old shower line to new sump area under concrete. 6 inches of 1.5" pvc to the new p-trap. New p-trap to the new shower waste shoe and overflow drain. I'm going to add the Studor mini-vent tonight and try it again. Any other suggestions would be most appreciated!

I truly appreciate all the great responses!

iamgrowler · Mar 7, 2007, 07:27 PM

If you didn't physically remove the 2" p-trap from the old shower, then yes, you have double trapped the new tub installation.

There is no kind way of saying this, so I'm going to be blunt;

The 2" p-trap at the old shower location is going to have to be excavated and removed.

doug238 · Mar 7, 2007, 08:34 PM

And I will stand with growler on this. If you rig this then this thing will always be a thorn in your side. Do the right thing, take the tub up and pipe it correctly by removing a trap.

crzychestr · Mar 7, 2007, 09:24 PM

Yeesh. Could I not just remove the p-trap from the new tub and let the drain water flow +/-4' to the old shower p-trap? Is it a definite that there would have been a p-trap on the shower drain in the slab? I didn't see it within 6-8" of the shower drain when I busted out the concrete.

Should I keep and install the Studor mini? Would this increase the positive drainage? Or if I just had one trap would the drain move faster and the 'glug, glug, glug' go away?

I am admittedly a novice when it comes to plumbing, but I enjoy doing stuff like this and take instruction well.

Thanks for the help - you folks are too kind.

JR

doug238 · Mar 7, 2007, 09:31 PM

If your trap is a goodly distance away then you will have an odor problem.

crzychestr · Mar 8, 2007, 11:43 AM

If the shower did have a trap, it would be somewhere in the neighborhood of between 3.5' and 5.5' away from the tub waste shoe and overflow drain. Would this be a goodly distance away?

Thanks again - we're getting there...

nmwirez · Mar 8, 2007, 01:52 PM

Originally Posted by crzychestr

If the shower did have a trap, it would be somewhere in the neighborhood of between 3.5' and 5.5' away from the tub waste shoe and overflow drain. Would this be a goodly distance away?

Thanks again - we're getting there..........

Is that tub against an outside wall? If so bite the bullet and jack open to the tub p-trap and extend that branch to the outside for a cleanout. In the process run a vent stub to a forced air fan and flex vent through the wall to above the eave line.

I am not sure how crazy inspectors are in your area, so consult with them first.

:D :D :D nm

crzychestr · Mar 8, 2007, 05:13 PM

Inspectors? What inspectors? We live in God's country - as rural as it gets. We have no county inspectors.

The tub is against an interior wall, partially below grade. My only options (as I see them) are to:

1. use the Studor mini vent and see if it works
2. take off the tub trap and see how it goes
3. beat out the slab around where the shower drain was and see if I can find a p-trap
4. tear out the ceiling and see if I can find a vent for the second floor plumbing to tie in to
5. combination of the previous
6. some other solution I am yet unaware of

What would those of you much wiser than I suggest (other than to hire a licensed plumber)?

Thanks!

nmwirez · Mar 8, 2007, 06:26 PM

Originally Posted by crzychestr

Inspectors? What inspectors? We live in God's country - as rural as it gets. We have no county inspectors.

The tub is against an interior wall, partially below grade. My only options (as I see them) are to:

1. use the Studor mini vent and see if it works
2. take off the tub trap and see how it goes If this is what I think I am misunderstanding then the answer is what growler and doug are saying. There is no distant shower, it's right under the new tub! If this is correct, yes then remove the new tub p-trap and the problem should go away providing there is the p-trap in the old shower pan that has a vent. 3. beat out the slab around where the shower drain was and see if I can find a p-trapI think I am starting to see your dilemma. I am confused about the shower p-trap. I thought there was a shower with a p-trap located elsewhere that you tied into with a 4 foot horizontal branch! Is this true?
4. tear out the ceiling and see if I can find a vent for the second floor plumbing to tie in to
5. combination of the previous 6. some other solution I am yet unaware of

What would those of you much wiser than I suggest (other than to hire a licensed plumber)?

Thanks!

I did not get a clear interpretation in my mind on the exact distance between the old shower pan and the tub. If the above is correct then there should be no problems. (removing the tub new p-trap.)

I am sure you will let us know. :) nm

crzychestr · Mar 9, 2007, 12:52 PM

Well, it's official - you guys are geniuses. There was another trap about 9-10" away from the old shower drain. I removed it and installed the mini vent behind the tub drain and when we pulled the plug, angels sang as the water swirled and drained. No more 'glugging' either.

Thanks a million!

speedball1 · Mar 9, 2007, 01:20 PM

And I stand with both of them. Chapter 7, Section 703.6 of The Standard Plumbing Code sez, "No fixture shall be double trapped." Remove the trap and save yourself a whole bunch of problems. Sorry we were posting at the same time. I didn''t know that you had already removed it. Regards, Tom

doug238 · Mar 10, 2007, 10:20 PM

Try this, take the mini vent out and put a plug in it and see how it drains now.

[to wirez] your advice on this is so far out in left field, I got a good laugh out of it. A forced vent fan? A cleanout? These things are not practical plumbing answers.