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rod01 · May 25, 2012, 07:45 PM

My submersible well pump[3 wire with controller] started throwing the breaker this morning. I pulled the pump out and cut the wires off and separated them and the breaker still tripps. I took the wires out of the controller and they are all showing continuity to each other on my multimeter. Seems like a problem with the cable [700 ft] but don't know how to find it other than digging it up and putting in new wire. Any suggestions

Thanks Rodney

speedball1 · May 26, 2012, 05:26 AM

Seems like a problem with the cable [700 ft]

What makes you think it's the power line? Are you not getting power to the control box? My first thought would be shorted out motor windings. Your thoughts? Tom

jlisenbe · May 26, 2012, 05:32 AM

"I pulled the pump out and cut the wires off and seperated them and the breaker still tripps."

That eliminates the pump as the problem. Sure sounds like you are guessing right about the buried cable. Is the ground wet? When buried cable starts going bad, wet, rainy weather will cause it to arc and trip a breaker.

You might also want to try a new breaker before you have to start replacing cable.

I'm no electrician, but 700' sure sound like an awfully long run for 240 volts.

rod01 · May 26, 2012, 05:39 AM

Originally Posted by speedball1

What makes you think it's the power line? Are you not getting power to the control box? My first thought would be shorted out motor windings. Your thoughts? Tom

I cut the wires to the pump motor at the pump and unhooked the motor cable wires after the controller and separated all wires so they aren't touching and they are buzzing[showing continuity when I touch the various combinations of the 4 [including ground ]wires. To me this means the cable has a dead short wouldn't it?
Thanks Rodney

rod01 · May 26, 2012, 05:53 AM

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

That eliminates the pump as the problem. Sure sounds like you are guessing right about the buried cable. Is the ground wet? When buried cable starts going bad, wet, rainy weather will cause it to arc and trip a breaker.

You might also want to try a new breaker before you have to start replacing cable.

I'm no electrician, but 700' sure sound like an awfully long run for 240 volts.

Yes the ground is very wet as the water is only 2 ft from the top of the well casing. I am going down to swap breakers and see what happends. If it was an arced wire wouldn't the wire be separated at the arc? If so then the water must be acting as a conductor? I wander if there's a easy way to pinpoint the defect and fix it without digging up the whole thing?
Thanks Rodney

speedball1 · May 26, 2012, 05:55 AM

Did you cut the wires to the control box and remove the breakers when you checked for shorts in the power line? Back to you, Tom

rod01 · May 26, 2012, 06:03 AM

Originally Posted by speedball1

Did you cut the wires to the control box and remove the breakers when you checked for shorts in the power line? Back to you, Tom

I cut the wires at the pump motor,separated them,took the motor cable wires off my controller,separated all of them and checked continuity between the separated wires and there is continuity between them all in every combination.
There is power from the breaker to switches and controller but to me the cable to the pump from the controller must be bad? What's the easiest way to find where the cable is damaged?
Thanks Rodney

tkrussell · May 26, 2012, 06:07 AM

The troubleshooting you have done proves the cable is shorted.

Contact a local cable troubleshooter, I am sure there is a firm that offers the service of locating faulted cables. They will come in with an instrument called a Thumper, it should find the exact location of the fault, that you can dig, find, and repair.

Hopefully this works, to eliminate the need of changing the entire 700 foot run.

tkrussell · May 26, 2012, 06:17 AM

Try here:

Magna Electric Corporation - Locating Services

By using your IP address I am able to determine your general geographical location.

You may need to run a temporary cable on the ground to get the pump working for now until the underground cable can be repaired.

rod01 · May 26, 2012, 06:41 AM

Originally Posted by tkrussell

Try here:

Magna Electric Corporation - Locating Services

By using your IP address I am able to determine your general geographical location.

You may need to run a temporary cable on the ground to get the pump working for now until the underground cable can be repaired.

I am at stockholm, saskatchewan, canada and not sure of the IP address. The cable was very tight where it was hanging over the well casing. The well is alongside a creek and you need rubber boots to get there, it is very wet for about 100 ft and then gets to higher ground. We have had a lot of rain here in the last couple weeks and even some snow. If the break is on the higher ground I should be able to get to it after I get the other cable locates done so I don't damage any other utility wires.
Thanks Rodney
Thanks Rodney

jlisenbe · May 26, 2012, 09:35 AM

TK, considering the well location. Would he be wise to make the final thirty or so feet of run above ground as opposed to buried?

Rod, you have lots of rain, snow, water only two feet down. Wow. As dry as it is here, I'm jealous.

rod01 · May 26, 2012, 07:16 PM

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

TK, considering the well location. would he be wise to make the final thirty or so feet of run above ground as opposed to buried?

Rod, you have lots of rain, snow, water only two feet down. Wow. As dry as it is here, I'm jealous.

jlisenbe, thanks for your help but my plan didn't go as planned. I got a cable locater out and he traced the wire there was one spot where he lost about half his signal about 450 ft from well and weak signal the rest of the way to well. I couldn't did deep enough with my crawler to reach the cable[ too wet ]so am baiting for a backhoe on Monday.Im going to try and pull out the cable starting at the well working past the spot with a poor signal then splice in what's needed and re-lay the cable.In theory it should work but in reality I have my doubts.. The backup plan is to splice in a shallow wire all the way to the well, I would lay it on top but it is in a bison pasture so that won't work. The right angle fitting in the well also snapped so it has made another big job trying to lower the water level enough to get a new fitting on and the pump reinstalled. Im lucky I got sat/sun/mon off this weekend.
We have dry years here too and I know where your coming from however it does give you an excuse to have a cold beer if so inclined that is.
Thanks Rodney

speedball1 · May 27, 2012, 06:15 AM

Please keep us informed of further developments. Tom

jlisenbe · May 27, 2012, 06:35 AM

MIght be more cost-effective to just rent a trencher and run a new cable. Not sure how old the cable is, but if it has lost insulation at one point, it can certainly happen again and you will be in the same boat.

rod01 · May 27, 2012, 07:47 AM

Ive been trying to crunch some numbers but no building supply retailers around here sell that wire and I have to get it through a electrical supply [Eecol electric who only sells to electricians] I have to order it through a building supply retailer who can't give me a price until Monday when Eecol is open .I have a feeling its pretty pricey wire. The total run is closer to 1000ft and the signal for the ground wire dropped to half about 450 ft from the well. We also got another 1/2" of rain last night. Sorry, I know that must hurt your ears.

Thanks Rodney

jlisenbe · May 27, 2012, 01:10 PM

Well, I obviously have not looked at the price of electrical wiring recently. This is what Lowe's wants for it.

Shop Southwire 10 AWG 250' UF Outdoor Wire at Lowes.com

Fixing what you have is starting to look better all the time.

Yes, I sure wish we had your rain.

rod01 · May 27, 2012, 06:49 PM

It rained 3/4" since this morning and my creek started flowing again right where we have to trench so I have to postpone. I have 8 awg 600 volt type twu -40c 3 strand wire I guess because of the longer run. Im guessing the price is at least 2 to 3 times more down here as at Lowe's in the U.S.A. Don't ask me why but it's the reason I do a lot of shopping at Minot N.D. however they do not have a Lowe's store in Minot and probably why I have never shoped at Lowe's, mostly Menards .
Thanks for the info Rodney