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Cloe_l · Mar 24, 2012, 10:56 AM

Hello dear community,

I hope you can help me with someone useful advices. I will sum up the whole story and hopefully you won't be as confused as I am at the end.

I am 25 years old and I have dated my ex who is 33 years old for 2 years. It was a long distance relationship. I was jealous and nagged quite a lot on him. He was always a caring loving guy, who isn't very good with women and sometimes acted like a jerk. He broke up with me once but we came together after two weeks. Everyone of his friends was telling him that I was the bad guy and he believed them, until a friend told him that she thinks he gives up too soon. So we came back together.

When we were together fights didn't last longer than 2 days, when we were apart we could fight over emails and the Internet for weeks. After he broke up with me for the second time 7 months ago, I had lots of problems in my life (family, living situation, apartment, money, etc.) and acted very dramatic. We talked normally for a while, then I had rage outbursts when he didn't want to try it again. For a long time after the break up he said "I still love you, but this isn't enough to make things work out".

After 4 months it got better, we started talking as friends, I started to go out, but was still sad about losing him. When I was whiny he told me that he feels sorry for causing me so much hurt, but he can't go back and fix things. When I was angry at him, he got defensive and accused me of a lot of stuff (being clingy, demanding and so on). He told me that he doesn't love me anymore but still feels strongly attracted to me. After 5 months, I decided (on his advice) to sleep with another guy and told him about this. He said that he felt lonely and misses me (sudden change) and asked me to come visit him (before I begged for months, also lost my apartment and didn't know where to go, but he still refused). He even said that he loves me. When I asked why he changed his mind, he clarified that he wasn't trying to bring us back together but wanted to hang out like we used to (he invited me to stay for 3 months). I talked to friends and they said I shouldn't do this because he is not serious, so I declined and said I will come only if he wants to try it again, otherwise it would make no sense for me and would crush me like another break up. I hoped he would suggest trying it out again, but he only replied "you are right and it's more important for you to stay healthy than visit".

I got furious and we ended up fighting and insulting each other (much easier over mail... than face to face of course... ). After this he broke up contact with me, but I didn't give up and after lots of mails and calls, he was willing to talk to me. A friend of him contacted me and told me that he dates her cousin now. Big fight again... I apologized... He forgave me... We tried to talk as friends. I pretended that I don't mind him dating her. He keeps overworking himself and gets not enough sleep. When I asked him to rest more and what he would do if I visited him right now, he said that he would have been happy and everything would have been all right. Then I joked that I could fly over now and he only laughed and said "don't bring me into trouble". Afterward he said he wouldn't be in trouble because it is nothing serious between him and this girl and she wouldn't even mind if he slept with others. When I asked more about her, he said "no stay out of it".

Later on he also said that he wished it would have been between us like this, that it would be only us and others could **** off, basically more privacy. I tried to stay calm and take it with grace till I burst again. He told that it is not good for me to know about them, but then he told me that he will spend the whole weekend with her (I didn't ask what he will do on the weekend, only said that I will go out and have no time). Afterward I wrote him mails, that I don't care anymore and will fly over, because I think it will be good for me. (also following his advice to think more about me before I care about others)

He got mad and said I am demanding and clinging, needy and addictive. After I told him that I need him and that I can't live on without him (gonna take my life... ), he said that I need to be happy on my own and that I used him as a distraction from my real problems. He said that allowing me to visit him would be more cruel than declining.

As you can see it is kind of like a back and forth. He accuses me of all this and after I apologize, he only says "it's ok, I know you had a hard time lately". He also says he cares, but then ignores me when I get mad. He knows I panic after a fight and try to reach him, ignoring me only makes it worse. I don't get it. I told him to stop making decision for me, to stop using my health as a reason to distance himself from me, but he still keeps doing it. He says that I am wearing him out and pressuring him. I don't get it. Is he being polite and is in love with this girl or is trying to push me because he thinks that he is no good for me.

How can I convince him, that I am not dependent and needy, but that I love him. When I will break off contact he will move on, when I will keep bugging him he will get annoyed. I am scared to lose him to this local girl and I managed to persuade him before to come back. Is he still in love with me and breaking up only because he thinks it is best for me?

I would love to fly over there and see how it goes, since he broke up with me on cam and we didn't see each other in person anymore. But I also don't want to ruin his new "relationship" for him in case he is serious about her and just tells me that he is not.

talaniman · Mar 24, 2012, 03:27 PM

What you mean is you do not care about his relationship, just getting him back by any means necessary. You sure don't take hints well, nor can you bow out gracefully, so he keeps you at an emotional distance as its Friends With Benefits for a while, and then you have to go, while he goes about his own business while you hold on to empty air, and false hope, and do the hissy fit thing, and mood swings, and temper tantrums.

He still will never take you back, so the experiment is over, and has been a long time. You just haven't accepted it yet.

Cloe_l · Mar 24, 2012, 04:09 PM

Thank you for the reply. I don't understand why he said that he loves me? And I do care about his relationship but then why does he let it look like it is only sex? I asked him if he serious about her and said that he doesn't want to say anything which would incriminate him, and then made a joke about the 5th amendment. He also says that I am making poor choices in life and that I am pretty smart and cabable. He asked for two weeks off and I haven't contacted him so far. The way he said that I can't visit him as long I am depending on him, it sounded as if I could if I wasn't. I honestly believe that he still loves me, but is scared that I will break down if things won't work out. I mean he could have said "sorry I love someone else" and not "I think this wouldn't be healthy for you to vist, you were right" and "it is nothing serious"
What if he loves ne and is simply scared of hurting me??

talaniman · Mar 24, 2012, 04:19 PM

Its time to stand for yourself and stop waiting for his permission to close this chapter of your life.

What if he loves me and is simply scared of hurting me??

What if he is playing with your heart because you keep letting him?

Cloe_l · Mar 24, 2012, 04:46 PM

If he plays with my heart than I am losing nothing, if he us a good man like I believe than I will lose the love of my life. I seriously tried to move on and it hurts. I don't want him to leave if he still loves me. Lots of things went wrong and we were not the perfect couple but we were good in so many ways. He often gets discouraged and gives up. How can I show him that I really love him and that I can decide on my own if he is good for me or not? How can I make him understand that it is not his decision whether staying with him or not is good or bad for me. He should decide for himself but not for myself. I can't move on when he says that he leaves me for my own good

talaniman · Mar 24, 2012, 11:08 PM

Why can't you take some time away to get your head screwed on better, and let him have fun with the new girl without your interfering in his plan. I mean if he is doing his thing with someone else, why are you still holding onto this crazy notion he wants you. Heck, he has rejected you and filled your head with nonsense and BS, that you gobble up like a hungry dog, and even with a new chick coming you still think he is all for you?

Sorry, but that borders on delusional, since when ever he disappears you blow up his cell, and email until he responds. Is that the actions of a reasonable person? Hell know it ain't!!

Cloe_l · Mar 25, 2012, 09:27 AM

Ok first of all, he asked for two weeks off and said that we will talk again. Also that we will talk later about me visiting for his birthday. I haven't contacted him for almost two weeks now. So no I give him time off no matter how many breakdowns I had during this time. I only called him 5 times when I was drunk, after he told me he will spend the we with her. I apologized for that. I was dramatic when he ignored me for a week, also apologized for that. I know its no excuse for my behavior but I had a pancreatitis (of which he didn't know) so yeah the pain drove me nuts that I lost my whole composure. Again I know it's no excuse.
Secondly, I told him to contact me by himself, we will see if he does next week. I don't think they are serious. His cousin told that they went on dates after I told her that he asked me to visit. She also said that they are not serious, because it's her cousin. Maybe she just said it to calm me down. He said before that he felt like sex and not like a relationship before he started dating her. He said that they are not in an exclusive girlfriend boyfriend relationship. And he didn't date anyone in last 6 months before this girl now. So this is why I hope that it is only sex for him. If he said that it is serious then I would back off.
Maybe he really still loves me? He means so much to me and I don't want to give up if he still does. Sex and love are two separate things, especially for men, aren't they?

talaniman · Mar 25, 2012, 10:56 AM

LOL, they may be separate, but men who love will surely let that love be known, and they move they earth for that love. So for whatever reason he surely isn't moving the earth for you, and may not be as into you, as you are him.

Or worse, he will love the sex, but not being in a relationship with you. For sure, he isn't worried about losing you. Now what??

Cloe_l · Mar 25, 2012, 11:02 AM

You know I have made many mistakes in the relationship and even more after we broke up, but now I can see them and I want to make it better with him and not with someone else. I mean he invested a lot into the relationship too. I just want him to see that I am working on myself and changing, but no matter what I do he thinks that I do this only to get him back. Sure I want him back but not so that I will make the same mistakes but to make it better. It is so frustrating that no matter what I do backfires or shows no results. I know I ****ed up a lot but shall I just say "whatever" and move on? It doesn't feel right to me to do nothing.

Is there a way to have a normal adult and reasonable conversation with my, without him thinking that I am crazy, needy, dependent or beggy? And if how can I do it?

Fr_Chuck · Mar 25, 2012, 12:01 PM

Often it is too little too late, You can not change the past and often use what you learned with someone new. Sounds like you are still obsessed on this person who is not returning any of the emotion except for a good booty call.

Cat1864 · Mar 25, 2012, 12:06 PM

Cloe, I read the thread and I think you are so caught up in wanting him that you aren't looking at the rest of the story. This isn't a romance novel where the woman and man make mistakes and then suddenly find their love for each other again to live happily ever after.

He is seeing someone and you seem to admit that you don't know what their relationship is really like. He seems to be telling you one thing one minute then another minute something else. Regardless of whether they are bed buddies or have a committed relationship, he isn't looking for a committed relationship with you.

Do you really want to be the 'other woman' or one of his 'stable' of playmates? If I put it in terms of you being just another sex toy to him, does that make you feel good about yourself?

What if you spent some time totally on your own rebuilding your relationship with yourself and totally ignored him until you didn't care if he contacted you or not? What if you stayed sober and made certain that you didn't contact him by getting rid of any contact information you have for him so that you can't easily contact him when your guard is down? What if you actively did what you could to let go and heal? What if you went out on dates and didn't saddle them with your feelings for your ex?

You are looking at this from one perspective and hoping that others will see it the same way you. I am sorry that I can't. If I saw hope for you going to see him, I would say so. However, all I see is more pain that can be avoided if you allow yourself.

You say that you have worked on yourself and made changes. I am very sincere when I say congratulations if those changes help you feel better about you. I would like to see you live with them and see how they work in a new relationship with someone who won't be judging you by your past. I would love to hear that you found a relationship with someone who wants you as you are and who encourages you to feel good about about you.

Please give yourself a chance.

talaniman · Mar 25, 2012, 12:14 PM

Originally Posted by Cloe_l

You know I have made many mistakes in the relationship and even more after we broke up, but now I can see them and I want to make it better with him and not with someone else. I mean he invested a lot into the relationship too. I just want him to see that I am working on myself and changing, but no matter what I do he thinks that I do this only to get him back. Sure I want him back but not so that I will make the same mistakes but to make it better. It is so frustrating that no matter what I do backfires or shows no results. I know I ****ed up a lot but shall I just say "whatever" and move on? It doesn't feel right to me to do nothing.

Is there a way to have a normal adult and reasonable conversation with my, without him thinking that I am crazy, needy, dependent or beggy? And if how can I do it?

Not until you have healed properly enough to be practical, and objective, and NOT stuck on some one that's clearly NOT as stuck on you!

You are not practical, objective, nor realistic, so at a very bad disadvantage. Desperate is a word that sums it up!

Cloe_l · Mar 25, 2012, 12:36 PM

Thank you for your replies cat and frank. I think right now it is my biggest concern that it might be too late. I guess in live you don't get unlimited changes. And this sucks. When I was with him it was my first serious relationship, where I could open up and be myself, same goes for him, but now there is only bitterness. We managed to talk for a while normally and said that he was glad for it, but to him it seems things can go well only for a limited time with me. I tried to stay friends and calm while watching sail away with the girl, throwing everything we had aboard and at some point my patience broke. I think this is human even if he thinks it's crazy. A person with more self control might have managed to deal with it longer and a smarter person would not get drunk with her friend who is also not over her ex...
Cat I really wish to be with someone who doesn't judge me because of my past, but I keep hoping that my ex can do the same. He is smart and he still cares about me. After a fight 2 months ago he filtered my mails, and after we made up he told me that he read them because he was curious on how I was doing. Even when he was angry he still cared and I am the same. No matter how mad I am at him, I still care about his well being.
Cat I know I can get over him, I know I can delete his numbers, wouldn't be the first time, and after a while leave him in the past. But I am scared of doing so, because then there would be really no go back. I don't want to be with someone else, because he has all the qualities I am looking for. The bad traits are minor and avoidable if I show different behavior.
I know that I could do better in our relationship and it is bitter than I can't show him this.
You know that my ex gave me the same advices? Concentrate on myself, deal with my problems, get healthy and become happy again. But he also thinks that I cannot do all this as long getting the relationship is more important for me and that I can't work on myself while being together with him. On the other side he tries to convince me that I am capable and can solve all my problems alone. Well if he thinks that I am capable then why is he so certain that I can't do both? Why can't I work on myself and at the time on a healthy relationship with him? I know that this would be harder, but the rewards would also bigger then. I trust myself that I can do both, otherwise I wouldn't try to convince him.
Everyone who says "I want my ex back" isn't desperate. I was for a long time, but now I simply want a new chance and a new start with the person I know.
I don't mind if others see it differently, I can understand how it looks like. I can also understand why he thinks about me the way he does, I would probably think the same if I was in his situation. But he managed to make me see all my mistakes and understand what I did wrong. All I want is him to understand me now. He did before and it seems he still does, that's why we are still talking to each other. But this how far it goes. How do I bring it to the next level?

Cloe_l · Mar 25, 2012, 12:42 PM

Talani my problem is that I don't have so much time to wait till I am the worlds most balanced person, without any fear or need for anyone else.
When I will be the way you described it, he will be gone for good. Not to mention that I will lose all the feelings for him that I have left. This is not healing and then trying again. This is moving on with no return.
He lives in America and I live in Europe. There is no way that we will run into each other by coincidence and get together again. I also can't ask him to go out for a coffee. If this here ends now, then there will be now chance of anything ever working out again.

talaniman · Mar 25, 2012, 12:53 PM

This is not healing and then trying again. This is moving on with no return.

Now you are catching on. Healing will bring the change in feeling that you need to find a better way to be happy than the desperate, miserable path you are on now. It will bring acceptance, and a renewed strength to do better.

As a guy, I think you make a lousy romantic partner. More problems than its worth. I am sure that's what he has told you. Take the healing!

JudyKayTee · Mar 25, 2012, 01:08 PM

I understand why you want to reconcile with him but I don't understand why he would want to reconcile with you.

I don't see you bringing anything constructive "to the table."

Cloe_l · Mar 25, 2012, 01:09 PM

To get you right talani,
You say that I have only the choice of healing but not the chance of being a good partner for him?
And no he didn't say that I am a lousy partner, he only said that he has no energy to deal with me the way I have been acting.
I tried to act different and the last time I started to move on, I got an invite from him. I doubt he will ask me again though if I will move on and forget about him.
Aren't you supposed to fight for the people who are important to you? Why is it wrong if I do this? It is not like I stop living my life if I try.

Cloe_l · Mar 25, 2012, 01:16 PM

Thank you for understanding Judy.
I tried to be constructive, but it all got turned down. After every fight it is me who comes back and tries to reconcile. I was patient when he told me that he has no time and is busy at work, I listened to his complaints about work and gave advices, I asked him everyday how he feels, tried to cheer him when felt sad, shut up when he said he was busy. I asked him if he could find one hour a week to cam with me, because he said he wanted to maintain the contact with me and wouldn't want to spoil it. But after telling me that he won't have time for ANYONE in the next weeks because of work and then telling me that he will spend the whole weekend with this girl who he is not serious about, I got mad.
I want him to be honest and play with open cards and it doesn't feel he does.
He normally isn't like this.

Cat1864 · Mar 25, 2012, 01:48 PM

I have a very basic question for you: Are you making changes for yourself or for him?

Cloe_l · Mar 25, 2012, 03:05 PM

I am making changes for myself because whether I am with him or not, I want to be happy and content with myself and my life.
I wish he would be able to believe me and see that I am working on myself not only because I want to be together with him but because I do it for me. I know I shouldn't care what others think and so on, but to me it matters what people who are important to me think of me. I don't think this wrong.