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paraclete · Feb 5, 2012, 10:08 PM

Unable to get SOPA and PIPA up, the Empire (aka USA) has struck back with TPPIs TPP Worse Than SOPA, PIPA & ACTA? | WebProNews

What does it all mean, well apparently unlimited copyright of data, so that US Law is predominate in other jurisdictions giving rights to data stored on computers

tomder55 · Feb 6, 2012, 05:05 AM

Don't know about the net implications .I know as a protectionist you oppose this for more reasons than that.
I prefer bilateral trade deals over regional ones ;but I have to look at the details before I oppose it.

excon · Feb 6, 2012, 07:10 AM

Hello clete:

There are SOME people who SAY they're for smaller government, but support right wing BIG government... Indeed, given the green light by these individuals, there's NOTHING stopping the march of government to control EVERYTHING.

excon

tomder55 · Feb 6, 2012, 07:40 AM

This of course is nonsense. It is not at all unusual for details of the negotiations of a trade deal to be secret during the negotiations.
Also this trade deal is a trade deal and there is no evidence that it restricts freedoms like SOPA and PIPA .
There are people who oppose free trade like Clete ,and those that don't . Some people in Japan as an example oppose it because they think their agricultural products need to be protected . To hell with the Japanese consumer who pay much more for staple food like rice because their crop could never compete on the open market.

Now if there is evidence that this is something similar to SOPA of course I would oppose it. But so far I see no simularity.

paraclete · Feb 6, 2012, 02:25 PM

Originally Posted by tomder55

This of course is nonsense. It is not at all unusual for details of the negotiations of a trade deal to be secret during the negotiations.
Also this trade deal is a trade deal and there is no evidence that it restricts freedoms like SOPA and PIPA .
There are people who oppose free trade like Clete ,and those that don't . Some people in Japan as an example oppose it because they think their agricultural products need to be protected . To hell with the Japanese consumer who pay much more for staple food like rice because their crop could never compete on the open market.

Now if there is evidence that this is something simular to SOPA of course I would oppose it. But so far I see no simularity.

Ok Tom you have missed it what happens if that offensive data that SOPA was opposed to is stored on an offshore computer, an IP server, this treaty allows the US government to have it seized under the treaty obligations. Since it enshrines perpetual copyright any and all data is subject to it's reach. No design is safe irrespective of whether there is local patient or a patient has expired under local law.

You say I oppose free trade but in reality what I oppose is the missuse of trade agreements by the US to obtain commercial advantage meaning the trade is not free but comes with a sting in the tail, and any agreement that has the US as part of it carries this possibility.

You think Japan is wrong to protect its local market for a diet staple but is the US a significant rice producer. No the Japanese have the good sense to protect a significant industry. If the rice crop fails they have no one to blame but themselves. We too had significant industries, we failed to protect them and they are gone, consigned to history but I have no doubt that US hungarily eyes our markets in China for commodities while wanting access to our market. I wonder if you think it is wrong for the US to protect it's sugar industry against Australian imports?

NeedKarma · Feb 6, 2012, 02:34 PM

ACTA is SOPA on steroids: Anti-Counterfeiting Trade Agreement - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

What is needed is a revision/rewriting of IP and copyright legislation. ACTA is very, very invasive and secretive.

tomder55 · Feb 6, 2012, 04:42 PM

I wonder if you think it is wrong for the US to protect it's sugar industry against Australian imports?

I Absolutely oppose US price supports .

paraclete · Feb 8, 2012, 09:33 PM

Originally Posted by tomder55

I Absolutely oppose US price supports .

Well that's great, perhaps you could persuade your politicians to abandon them and level the playing field. Oh I forgot you like the playing field tilted in your direction and the wind at your back. You complain about China and yet you buy their cheap goods, is this because you have an unfavourable trade balance? Or is they are more successful at this game than you are?

tomder55 · Feb 9, 2012, 05:01 AM

I don't have much options. Before he left this earth Steve Jobs told the President that the products he has made at places like the Foxconn plant in China are never coming back to the US.

The reason I don't like American price supports however is because it screws the American consumer . Not really concerned how it affects you.

paraclete · Feb 9, 2012, 02:02 PM

Yes that is the attitude we have come to expect that is why we have the attitude we do.

So Chinese products aren't imported into the US they are sold a favourable prices to the rest of us, if that isn't yankee B/S I don't know what is

tomder55 · Feb 9, 2012, 03:14 PM

You have resources ;you have an underachieving under employed sector . Why don't you open manufacturing plants and take some of them jobs away from the Chinese and other nations in the Pacific rim ? We'd love to buy cheap stuff from Australia besides cheap wine.

paraclete · Feb 9, 2012, 04:32 PM

I don't know what you are bleating about. You can have the cheap wine, we keep all the good stuff for ourselves, we have that little problem called high wages, no $7 an hour minimum here, Tom so why don't you have a junk led recovery? We could buy yank crap instead of Jap crap. Oh I forgot we used to do that once but the Jap crap is so much better. So you may think we are underperforming but we seem to have much better employment statistics than you do. Australians don't make cheap stuff, we don't compete with the Chinese, all our manufacturing plants went offshore, a little problem of multinational investment and decisions made in other places. We do, however, like selling cars to you.

tomder55 · Feb 9, 2012, 04:48 PM

I said an underachieving sector . You talk of them often.

paraclete · Feb 9, 2012, 05:41 PM

Do you mean we should discrimate against our indigenous population and employ them under sweatshop conditions? Shame on you Tom, that would make us no better than the British pastoralists who exploited them in the past

No they have their own industries making their form of art and selling it to gulliable tourists and staging sit downs in various places while negotiating native title claims.

If we could get that sector to work don't you think we would have done it by now, but you can't let them starve, now can you? Or maybe you can? One enterprising fellow offered to create 50,000 jobs for them in the mining industry, only a few thousand have taken up the offer.

What all this has to do with the most recent attempts to impose US law on the rest of us I have no idea.

tomder55 · Feb 9, 2012, 06:59 PM

Lol you talking of other discriminating is rich. Did you even read what you just wrote ?

paraclete · Feb 9, 2012, 09:03 PM

Originally Posted by tomder55

lol you talking of other discriminating is rich. did you even read what you just wrote ?

I can't help the truth Tom even if it is stranger than fiction.
http://www.oeeo.wa.gov.au/documents/...09/forrest.pdf
Why Twiggy?s Aboriginal jobs plan will fail | Green Left Weekly
Might expect that a person would want to exchange a life on welfare for training and a well paid job, however some prefer to pursue windfalls even if it takes years
WA native title deal a 'whitewash' | Herald Sun

One thing I know Tom your nation would not be as generous as we have been