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Sirreal · Jan 2, 2012, 10:17 AM

Everbody is a sinner or has onced sinned even with different denominations?

Wondergirl · Jan 2, 2012, 10:25 AM

What do "different denominations" have to do with sin?

Curlyben · Jan 2, 2012, 10:42 AM

Yep and is there anything more to your statement.

Lizboo222 · Jan 2, 2012, 11:36 AM

Well, I believe

Fr_Chuck · Jan 2, 2012, 12:38 PM

We are all sinners,

shazamataz · Jan 3, 2012, 07:30 AM

The minister (?) refused to baptise my little brother because my parents had not been to church in several years. Because of this they were sinners and were given the choice of either not baptising him or attending church 6 weeks in a row.

They are (were) Anglican.

Fr_Chuck · Jan 3, 2012, 07:36 AM

Strange shazamataz, must have beeen the local pastor, most of the Anglican's I know would baptise anyone that would walk in off the street.

Was it more of what is called a "high" church, very formal.

shazamataz · Jan 7, 2012, 07:09 AM

I'm not sure to be honest, it was the same church I was baptised at and they were never heavy church goers back then either (25 years ago).

I thought it was awfully strange as well, especially the requirement of just 6 sundays and all is well.

classyT · Feb 12, 2012, 09:56 AM

Originally Posted by shazamataz

The minister (?) refused to baptise my little brother because my parents had not been to church in several years. Because of this they were sinners and were given the choice of either not baptising him or attending church 6 weeks in a row.

They are (were) Anglican.

Shaz,

Unbelievable and unbiblical. I'm shaking my head. No wonder people don't want anything to do with Church or the Bible. They totally and completely misrepresent God. The ONLY prerequisite for being baptized according to the Bible is believing Jesus is Lord and he died for our sins and rose again. That is IT! Who can to judge someone's heart? And what in the world does NOT going to church have to do with being in sin or UNGodly? And worse yet, what does a parents walk have to do with their child? OH MY WORD... this makes my blood boil.

Ministers, Pastors and anyone who gets up and preaches the Word can and should be challenged. If they can't go straight to the Bible and give biblical reasons for their decisions ( such as making your parents attend church for 6 weeks in a row) then I would find another church. They are clearly in error. It's a rule they have made up and just like the pharisee's of Jesus day... they misrepresent and teach a God that isn't the God of the Bible. We are under GRACE. That means... Unmerited, unearned, undeserved favor.. and this minister would teach one had to even earn BAPTISM? What UTTER POPPYCOCK!

You know I believe if Christians really represented Christ they way he wants us to... People would be running to HIM. Who doesn't want unconditional love, who doesn't want acceptance no matter what a person has done? Who doesn't want to be completely righteous apart from our behavior? That is what Jesus Christ's offers to us freely. Anyone that asks to be baptized should be!! Sorry for my rant, but as you can tell I have very strong feelings about some of our so called Pastors and ministers today.

NeedKarma · Feb 12, 2012, 10:01 AM

Originally Posted by classyT

The ONLY prerequisite for being baptized according to the Bible is believing Jesus is Lord and he died for our sins and rose again. That is IT!

How can a 6 month old baby fit these pre-requisites? It's impossible.

classyT · Feb 12, 2012, 10:21 AM

NK

I didn't see where the child was 6 months old. How did I miss that? But we can still go to the Bible and find where Paul baptized families. It doesn't state how old the children were. How about I explain it like this... IF there is a pre-requisite it can be found in acts when Philip encounters the Ethiopian Eunuch. He was baptized the minute he believed. Baptism is an outward expression of an inward belief. If parents want to baptize their child there is no harm in it. They are simply dedicating that child to what they believe. I personally would want to be baptized again if I didn't understand it the first time. But in any event... the minister was clearly wrong. He had no biblical basis for insisting the parents attend church for 6 weeks. PERIOD

Wondergirl · Feb 12, 2012, 11:04 AM

Originally Posted by NeedKarma

How can a 6 month old baby fit these pre-requisites? It's impossible.

I was baptized at 3 weeks of age (as are many babies--often one of the first forays out into the world).

Baptism isn't saying the baby has faith yet, but that God (His Holy Spirit) will work faith in that child's heart. The sponsors or godparents promise to help make that happen with their spiritual support and prayers. The parents also promise to bring up the child in the knowledge of the Lord.

Some churches have a second baptism once the child is older or even has become an adult, and is aware of what he's saying. Most mainline Christian churches don't rebaptize, but do have what is called Confirmation when the child is around 12 or 13--that is, has a special ceremony to verify that the child believes and asks him to continue in his pursuit of spiritual knowledge.

My dad was a minister and NEVER put stipulations or turned down anyone who asked to be baptized or asked if their baby or child could be baptized. (Any Christian can baptize a baby, or anyone else, by the way. It doesn't have to be done by a minister or church official.)

NeedKarma · Feb 12, 2012, 01:17 PM

I guess I'm just not into indoctrinating my kids into something they have no choice in. If they want to choose a religion later that's fine.

Wondergirl · Feb 12, 2012, 01:30 PM

Originally Posted by NeedKarma

I guess I'm just not into indoctrinating my kids into something they have no choice in. If they want to choose a religion later that's fine.

But how will they know what to choose? Will you give them background on all religions and visit many churches/synagogues/mosques so they can later choose wisely?

NeedKarma · Feb 12, 2012, 01:40 PM

They can do their own research. I see no requirement for religion, one can live their life just fine without it.

Wondergirl · Feb 12, 2012, 02:12 PM

Originally Posted by NeedKarma

They can do their own research. I see no requirement for religion, one can live their life just fine without it.

I'm not saying it's a requirement, but it's like having no rules in your house, anything goes, so they have no limits during their first four years--and then you send them off to school. And then the fat hits the fire.

I would want to open my children's minds to all the religious (and non-religious) opportunities in the word, teach them about those opportunities in person at houses of worship and through library books (:)), talk with members of various groups, with clergy and people who know about the spiritual aspects of the group. Then my children will have a solid base on which to make a decision when they are older.

Fr_Chuck · Feb 12, 2012, 02:17 PM

Originally Posted by NeedKarma

They can do their own research. I see no requirement for religion, one can live their life just fine without it.

And that is what you teach your children and most likely what they will believe. You teach that to them by not teaching them a faith.

Unless you go to a difference type of church with them every week starting at a few years old. If you don't teach them any, they will have none. Since 5 and 6 year olds can't get in a car and drive to a nearby church by theirself

NeedKarma · Feb 12, 2012, 04:42 PM

Originally Posted by Wondergirl

I'm not saying it's a requirement, but it's like having no rules in your house, anything goes, so they have no limits during their first four years--and then you send them off to school. And then the fat hits the fire.

That's absolutely wrong. My kids have been raised with proper morals and ethics. It almost seems as if you believe that it's not possible to do so without religion, if that's the case then there is nothing I can say to make you believe otherwise since you are entrenched in your beliefs.
My kids are awesome, never in trouble, offer to volunteer at school to help others, involved in various activities with and without us; I couldn't ask for better kids. All without a 2000 year old holy book to use as a guide. I guess I'm just special... oh wait, I'm not, there are plenty of people like me in this world. :-)

NeedKarma · Feb 12, 2012, 04:43 PM

Originally Posted by Fr_Chuck

And that is what you teach your children and most likely what they will believe. You teach that to them by not teaching them a faith.

Unless you go to a difference type of church with them every week starting at a few years old. If you don't teach them any, they will have none. Since 5 and 6 year olds can't get in a car and drive to a nearby church by theirself

I'm OK with everything you said.

Alty · Feb 12, 2012, 05:10 PM

Originally Posted by NeedKarma

That's absolutely wrong. My kids have been raised with proper morals and ethics. It almost seems as if you believe that it's not possible to do so without religion, if that's the case then there is nothing I can say to make you believe otherwise since you are entrenched in your beliefs.
My kids are awesome, never in trouble, offer to volunteer at school to help others, involved in various activities with and without us; I couldn't ask for better kids. All without a 2000 year old holy book to use as a guide. I guess I'm just special...oh wait, I'm not, there are plenty of people like me in this world. :-)

Just want to tell you that you're not alone at all.

That's how we are here as well.

I want my kids to make their own choice, and they have all the information they need to make that choice.