[tomder55]

The presumptive frontrunner is Mittens Romney . The latest to surge is another flip-floppin Washington insider Republic.. if fact ,at least Romney isn't an inside the beltway establishment guy although the Republic establishment seems to prefer him for the moment .

At least with Mittens there isn't a lot of personal baggage weighing him down. Gingrich is the last person I would think a Tea Party type would support.

Besides the obvious ,that he is the consummate beltway insider ;only taking time off from elected office to profit from his associations in Washington ; he has taken public positions at least as antithesis to the TP cause as Romney has .

In his quest for lobby bucks he sold out conservative principles in lobbying for the very GSEs that we think should be privatized . His lobbying efforts led him to that infamous ad with madame Mimi Pelosi ,sitting on a couch together ,(I shudder at the thought) promoting carbon taxes and promoting the proposition that AGW is caused by humans . His lobbying efforts were directed at health care too . He may not believe in personal mandates ,but he did not mind making bucks promoting it .

He called the Ryan plan to reduce the debt “right-wing social engineering.”

What a choice ! If the TP runs a 3rd party candidate (and Ron Paul may do it anyway such is his ego) Obama will secure his 2nd term. They should be prepared to support these less than ideal candidates ,and work hard to get as many TP candidates into Congress and the Senate .
Nobody said that changing the culture of almost 100 years of statism was going to happen overnight.

[earl237]

Mitt Romney is the most intelligent, sensible and electable candidate, so naturally the Republican party will nominate Gingrich or some other unelectable nutbar. It's almost like they want to lose the next election. I feel sorry for smart Republicans like Romney who have to be in a party full of religious fanatics and crazy tea partiers.

[tomder55]

Actually the best and most experienced candidate left in the field is Huntsman .
You like Mitt because there is little difference in policies between him and a Dem when he's in a moment of candor .

[paraclete]

It looks like its all over bar the shouting

[tomder55]

That's what Howard Dean said

[earl237]

That's what Howard Dean said[/QUOTE] Great line, guess Dean will never live that one down.

[tomder55]

Palin came close to making an endorsement for Rick Santorum.
Palin predicts Santorum’s rise in Iowa - Election 2012 - The Washington Post

I don't believe Newt has the organization in place to win in the Iowa caucus where one needs someone at every precinct . From what I hear Newt hasn't even attempted to build an organization since his whole staff quit in June .
Newt Gingrich advisers resign en masse - Jonathan Martin and Maggie Haberman - POLITICO.com

And no one in Iowa gets a tingle up their leg over Mittens.

Iowa is up for grabs . Cain's supporters will most likely go to Santorum or Bachmann ;who won the straw poll earlier this year.
Whoever emerges from Iowa will be the "anyone but Mitt" candidate.
Romney will win New Hampshire ;but after that he will have to fight for every primary state after.

This is far from over.

As a side note... I think ir's absurd that Trump will moderate a debate .I applaud Huntsman and Paul for calling it out for the charade it is.

[speechlesstx]

The Trump debate, sheesh. And he 's still being his narcissistic self over this saying he still has until May next year to rescue Republicans as the party's nominee.

I'll tell you what I thought was good and that was Huckabee's forum Saturday where they had to face 3 state AGs for questioning. Dump Trump and let's do that again.

[tomder55]

Considering that the Hump is still considering throwing his hat in the ring ,I question why any of them would subject themselve to this reality show farce.What's he going to say ? "your fired !" ? Why not just pick our President in an 'American-Idol' format ?

[paraclete]

Tom at least if he was elected you would be led by a successful business man who knows the score. I would have thought as a died in the wool capitalist such an outcome would have been welcomed. You must learn to divorce reality from reality television. Just think of the effect though, of thousands of little enterpreneurs running about.

By the way have you noticed that other nations are coming to grips with the tax the rich and tax the corporations that you find so difficult to swallow, think of it as those who benefit the most pay the most

[tomder55]

He's a success measured by how often he fails and survives to live another day. He is the antithesis of a capitalist.
He has relied on bankruptsy protections at least 4 times . He has financed some of his ventures with junk bonds ;and has more than once been the receipient of sweet heart partnerships with state and local municipal governments. More than once this involved the use of eminent domain to confiscate other's property. He is the very definition of a crony socialist .

[paraclete]

he's a success measured by how often he fails and survives to live another day. He is the antithesis of a capitalist.
He has relied on bankruptsy protections at least 4 times . He has financed some of his ventures with junk bonds ;and has more than once been the receipient of sweet heart partnerships with state and local municipal governments. More than once this involved the use of eminent domain to confiscate other's property. He is the very definition of a crony socialist .

No Tom he is the very definition of an american capitalist, exploiting every opportunity to make money. This all sounds a bit Gilbert and Sullivan. He is the very model of a modern capitalist. Just think of that potential being turned loose on your economy.

[tomder55]

Again... state master command and control of the economy ;giving favors to their favorite business partners is NOT any capitalist model . To say that is to say the Mussolini model is capitalism . To say that is to claim the cadre in Beijing have adopted capitalism .

[paraclete]

again... state master command and control of the economy ;giving favors to their favorite business partners is NOT any capitalist model . To say that is to say the Mussolini model is capitalism . To say that is to claim the cadre in Beijing have adopted capitalism .

And your present system is different HOW?

Actually the Chinese have, but they maintain control of the economy, capitalism doesn't need democracy to flourish, it just needs a favourable environment. Your capitalist economy flourishs despite favours to favourite business partners, remember Haliburton as just one instance, or perhaps it doesn't after all.

The difference between China and the US is that China has the objective of lifting millions out of poverty as government policy. What they are going to do when their objectives are achieved, who knows, perhaps forceably populate those potemkin villages they have built. Whereas I understand the US also has a vast stock of unused housing and no plan to deal with the problem.

[tomder55]

The difference between China and the US is that China has the objective of lifting millions out of poverty as government policy.

Lol!! The Chinese model is designed to keep the cadres in power . PERIOD

[paraclete]

lol !!!!!!! The Chinese model is designed to keep the cadres in power . PERIOD

And the american model is designed to keep the rich in power. I really don't see the difference excepting in the frequency of elections. In both systems there are low paid wage slaves and some very wealthy people exploiting them.

[tomder55]

Yeah you made my point... the system has devolved from capitalism to a statist elite that picks and choses cronies to benefit . Ex says it right.. Term limits would end this crony socialism .The only way Trump is a capitalist is in Orwellian language (socialism is capitalism).

[paraclete]

yeah you made my point...the system has devolved from capitalism to a statist elite that picks and choses cronies to benefit . Ex says it right.. Term limits would end this crony socialism .The only way Trump is a capiltalist is in Orwellian language (socialism is capitalism).

Well Tom I see you are coming around to my point of veiw. It is all an illusion, a great big media event with the object of making the masses think they actually have choices, whether to perpetuate the status quo, or perpetuate the status quo. Change is allowed to happen now and again, this maintains the illusion, meanwhile you are continually in election mode selecting and rejecting candidates as a substitute for actually exercising a vote about something relevant.

Yes term limits would help as term limits on a President have helped but so also would aligning Presidential, representative and senate elections so that you don't wind up with a hung system every two years. In this age two years is just too short, no long term focus can develop.

Trump has benefited from the capitalist system, he wouldn't have been able to get away with it anywhere else, but socialism is caring about the little people because you know the rich can look after themselves not allowing the rich to exploit. You want to see an outworking of socialism, have a look at our system and the capitalists do very well.

[tomder55]

The cause is what I dispute. I say government is the problem.. you think government is the solution.

You are also locked into this Orwellian speak that claims what Trump does is capitalism... it is not . Socialism is government command and control of the economy.. What you are seeing is years of this nation institutionalizing government control of the economy . The Trumps of the world is the natual result of such a system.

[excon]

Hello tom:

Looks to me like you guys have invoked the Sharron Angle theory of how to win an election.

excon