[talaniman]

Maybe in the early stages of the recession things may have been underestimated, but just curious, what makes you think the stimulus DIDN'T work, and isn't still working?

Whose fault is it that state projects weren't shovel ready? Facts is they are still moving forward with projects to get them shovel ready as we write. Another fact has been lost is that a third of the stimulus was tax cuts, and you have seen the links I posted, and those are still in effect, which means YOURS too. Secondly, money to the states helped keep vital services going, and now as it winds down, state budgets are feeling the pinch, as you see here in Texas with the scaling back of education, fire, and police.

So what makes you think the stimulus didn't work? And don't tell me about the 8% unemployment, because its held study since some states are harder hit than others.

No it didn't save the world, but it slowed the contraction of the economy, and unlike republicans who seem to not care at the moment, the JOBS Bill would add to that in every state. They rather pass an abortion bill in the house today than create jobs tomorrow.

[speechlesstx]

Maybe in the early stages of the recession things may have been underestimated, but just curious, what makes you think the stimulis DIDN'T work, and isn't still working?

Oh I don't know, all those people protesting instead of working, a stagnant economy, high unemployment, that sort of thing.

Jesse Jackson Jr. doesn't seem to think it's working, he's calling for Obama to ignore the constitution and full government employment of 15 million unemployed Americans.

Illinois Democratic Rep. Jesse Jackson, Jr. told The Daily Caller on Wednesday that congressional opposition to the American Jobs Act is akin to the Confederate “states in rebellion.”

Jackson called for full government employment of the 15 million unemployed and said that Obama should “declare a national emergency” and take “extra-constitutional” action “administratively” — without the approval of Congress — to tackle unemployment.

“I hope the president continues to exercise extraordinary constitutional means, based on the history of Congresses that have been in rebellion in the past,” Jackson said. “He’s looking administratively for ways to advance the causes of the American people, because this Congress is completely dysfunctional.”

“President Obama tends to idealize — and rightfully so — Abraham Lincoln, who looked at states in rebellion and he made a judgment that the government of the United States, while the states are in rebellion, still had an obligation to function,” Jackson told TheDC at his Capitol Hill office on Wednesday.

“On several occasions now, we’ve seen … the Congress is in rebellion, determined, as Abraham Lincoln said, to wreck or ruin at all costs. I believe … in the direct hiring of 15 million unemployed Americans at $40,000 a head, some more than $40,000, some less than $40,000 — that’s a $600 billion stimulus. It could be a five-year program. For another $104 billion, we bailout all of the states … for another $100 billion, we bailout all of the cities,” he said.

First of all that's abut the most ridiculous idea I've ever heard a Congressman propose, and second of all he's horrible at math. That $600 billion he mentioned is for one year of his 5 year plan. That's I believe, $3 TRILLION.

[talaniman]

I don't know Speech, 15 million jobs at an average 40 grand a year would certainly expand the economy by a lot more than 3 trillion I think over 6 years. That's an investment that could create the demand to move the economy forward seems to me.

Actually he talks of 800 billion the first year, and 600 the next four. That's 3.2 trillion in 5 years. That s a good investment in a 14 trillion dollar a year economy and upward of 4% growth, that would be further expanded with a restructuring of middle class debt.

It's a lot more feasible than the 9-9-9 redistribution to the top and creating a social network drain of 75 million people in abject poverty, with no education possible that the republicans leading candidate has proposed.

As to the math, you both were correct, just a different time phase.

[speechlesstx]

Put them to work doing what, and at the expense of who?

[tomder55]

This government handing out shovels really is 1930s thinking (and it didn't work then either) .
9-9-9 as most of the candidates pointed out would never make it through Congress... But the concept is sound for those who have actually read the plan instead of making lame pizza and biblical jokes. '
My biggest beef with it is that in the hands of Dems it would become 15-15-15... 20-20-20 and on and on. The thought of a tool like a national sales tax in the hands of the Dems scares me.
I'm for a simplified ;get rid of most deductions flat income tax if I'm told I can't get rid of it all together. Let the States keep the sales taxes .
For corporations ? I'm more in line with Santorum... get rid of Cap gains taxes... I'd even go more than that... I'd have a capital repatriation holiday for 3 years .

[talaniman]

Report: Top 15 Repatriating Cos Cut Net 21,000 Jobs After '04 Tax Break | Fox Business

Repatriation didn't work in 2004, it just gave them more money to run overseas with, and it will be the same results we have now, Jobs leaving America, and not coming back.

Cains plan

999 | Herman Cain for President

[tomder55]

Yes it did... it pumped over $200 billion into the economy .

And a 5% reduction would add even more .
Foreign earnings tax break could add 2.9 million jobs, study says - Los Angeles Times


I already gave my objections to 9-9-9 . However it is a complete distortion to say it is a tax transfer upward. Also as the link shows ;9-9-9 is just a transitional phase to the 'Fair Tax ' .


Edit... looks like there is bi-partisan support for capital repatriation.
Both parties wary of linking jobs plans - TheHill.com

[tomder55]

See the President riding a diesel-powered Canadian Bus promoting jobs for Americans... bwaaahaaahaaahaaa!! I wonder if it meets the fuel efficiency standards he imposed on American companies??

[speechlesstx]

Right, on tour again in his Canadian bus right after doing his weekly address "from a GM plant in Detroit" which is actually a green screen.



"From a GM plant in Detroit, President Obama highlights the landmark trade agreements passed this week which will support tens of thousands of American jobs, level the playing field for American workers, and help us meet our goal of doubling our exports."

Maybe the green screen is on his bus.

[talaniman]

Canadian bus, refitted in Tennessee, and they have one for the republicans nominee too. The same company made John nominee bus too. But that doesn't count much does it.

LOL, and do you think all those auto workers will vote for the republican that said we should have let 'em fail?

You guys are expecting a lot aren't you??

[tomder55]

LOL, and do you think all those auto workers will vote for the republican that said we should have let 'em fail?

I submit that Ford is in much better footing for turning down the bailout . I already documented elsewhere that Chevy is now bailing out on America and its so called cutting edge technology will be a Chinese venture.

[paraclete]

I submit that Ford is in much better footing for turning down the bailout . I already documented elsewhere that Chevy is now bailing out on America and its so called cutting edge technology will be a Chinese venture.

Cutting edge technology and the american motor industry in the same sentence? This is what happens when you sell the farm, the machinery moves someplace else, but let them do to chinese industry what they did for american.

[talaniman]

Ford took a chance and leveraged all its assets for a loan. They were ahead of the curve, but after the others got rid of the dumbass CEO's they started to operate a lot better and did well given a second chance.

Watch out once the infrastructure on the electric power grid is in place. Then OPEC will get screwed. Invest in popcorn, and watch China implode.

[tomder55]

What will fuel the grid ? Windmills ? You ought to listen to your Guv. We are an enegy rich country and we are having a big debate if we should run a pipeline from Canada so we can buy their oil extracted from sand ! Absurd! Drill Drill Drill and watch our economy recover. It's the difference between OWS rage and having water pistol duels with the cops like they are doing in Canada.

[talaniman]

We could start with energy efficiency, and then get rid of the junk science that makes a shut off valve for a million bucks, that has never worked.

The Most Energy-Efficient Countries - Forbes.com

Drill baby drill will never work either

Oil consumption statistics - countries compared - Nationmaster

This is interesting as far as what the rest of the world is doing more in the area of efficientcy and dependence.

Energy in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[smoothy]

We have more untapped oil under our own soil than the entire middle east has tapped or untapped... and that's NOT considering Canada or others in our Hemisphere.

[talaniman]

We need more as we are the biggest consumer of oil, and the least energy efficient, and the messiest, as we are slow to clean up our messes, just think Valdis in Alaska, and the southern gulf coast.

[tomder55]

as we are the biggest consumer of oil

We are the biggest consumers of energy. That would be because as of today we still have the biggest economy to fuel.
All the more reason to have an 'all hands on deck ' approach to get as close to energy independence as possible.
Are renewables part of that future ? Undoubtedly . However ,I think we are putting the cart before the horse typical of a command economy by restricting existing supplies while simulatneously putting our eggs in some future energy supply that is far from a given .

[talaniman]

Nations that have to import their resources have to manage them wisely, and in an efficient way. Think of how far those resources would go if we didn't waste so much of it, in traffic as well as transmission deficiency. Not just talking about home owners, and commuters here either, but businesses, and cities as well. Infrastructure investments in our larger urban areas is crucial to us narrowing the gap between energy production, and actual use.

Improvements to an aging energy grid is key to that and I like what some cities are doing, like New York in replacing old outdated technologies with state of the art equipment, to cut down on waste and improve delivery, and reliability. They have even made some great strides with existing systems such as heating buildings with steam, a lot more efficiently than they were.

A national effort for conservation, and improvements would go a long way towards lowering costs, and make investments even more productive. Wasting more than half the pie is a lose/lose proposition.

[smoothy]

We have more than enough oil to get us through the next 100 years, WITHOUT OPEC and by then alternatives will have matured into being practical.