[Ltoothman]

We are trying to figure out if our well has a foot valve or if it just has the check valve in front of the pump (jet pump in basement). We lost water all of a sudden. We found a hole in the suction line & we have replaced that section of the suction line? We used the plumber's puddy on the joints to be sure there were no other leaks. We tried & tried to prime the pump to no avail. Don't seem to have a leak anywhere. The priming tube holds the water but then slowly lets it run down. I have put two gallons in without running the pump at all and the water slowly runs down. My husband said all the wells that he has seen with a foot valve has about a 6" casing at the well head. Ours well head and pipe leading down to well are only about 2 1/2 maybe 3" wide. And the well head is actually buried almost 5' down.

[speedball1]

Not all wells have foot valves,(see image)

We used the plumber's puddy on the the joints

You don't seal a threaded joint with plumbers putty. You use sealant or Teflon Tape. Putty will harden up and shrink over time . How sure are you the joints aren't leaking? On to the foot valve.
Sounds like whatever you have isn't doing its job. If you have a check valve,)see image) it will be found between the pump and the well head. If not then you have a foot valve.
But why the concern? If the foot valve's faulty why not simply install a check valve on the suction line next to the pump and forget it?
Good luck, Tom

[jlisenbe]

LT, you probably do have a footvalve. If you are pouring water into the primer port on the pump and it just goes through, then the checkvalve you mentioned would have to be leaking. I'd replace it. And if you only have twenty five feet of pipe, then why not simply pull the pipe up and replace the footvalve as well?

The reason for your smaller well casing is that you only have a single line jetpump. The larger well casings would be for a two line pump setup or a submersible pump.

Check out this site for some good info on footvalves.

I think your pipe joints with plumber's putty are probably OK for now.

Foot Valves used on piping for Water Wells, Explanation & Repair Advice

[speedball1]

Jlisnbe,
1. Why go through the hassle of pulling the suction line when all you need to do is install a check valve next to the pump? **and**
2. Plumbers putty is not pipe sealant although in this case it most likely will hold.
Would I use it on lines the held house pressure? Absolutely not. Regards, Tom

[jlisenbe]

1. You have a good point. I just believe in doing a thorough job so you don't end up six months later scratching your head and wondering if the footvalve needs to be replaced after all. Fix it right the first time and avoid a second time. But you might be right and the checkvalve would solve the problem.

2. I was simply suggesting he not worry about the joints until he replaced the checkvalve. This is a suction line so I would think the putty would hold for now. Again, your point is a good one.

[mygirlsdad77]

Just my thoughts. If you don't have a foot valve, then even if you have a check valve at the pump, you won't have much luck priming the system. The complete suction line needs to be full, (or mostly full) to get successful prime. If you only have a check vavle at the pump, with no foot valve in the well, you can poor as much water as you want, but it will just go into the well without filling the suction pipe. Bottom line, you need a foot valve to get the pump primed correctly. You can poor water in the pump, but it won't suck air. You need the suction line full of water for the pump to really prime.

[jlisenbe]

Actually, when priming the pump the water should only go as far as the CV and then stop. If it keeps going, the CV has to be leaking. Still, as MGD points out, I also wonder how much luck the pump would have when there would be several feet of air in the wellpipe below the CV. That's why I suspect there has to be a footvalve.

[mygirlsdad77]

Opps, you got me jl. I meant if you try to fill the well pipe (before the check valve) it would just run down into the well, and never fill the pipe. Of course if you are actully priming the pump at the pump, the water will only fill the pump from the check valve, which will give you a small prime, then just suck air, and loose prime again. If you did this over and over and over again, it will eventually suck all the air and prime the suction pipe, but it takes forever and a day and if the pump sets for a long period, the suction pipe will eventually loose its prime again unless there is a footvalve. At least this is the way I see it. If there is a check vavle at the pump, it is always nice to have a tee on the inlet side of the check valve to fill the well pipe (assuming there is a foot valve, which in my opinion is really the only way to go. Check valve at the pump is also the right thing to do, with a foot valve in well. This way, the pressure from the system only goes back to the check valve when pump turns off, instead of pressurizing the complete well pipe all the way back to the foot valve, which can cause hammering of the pressure switch. Thoughts on this?

[jlisenbe]

Sounds logical.

[Ltoothman]

Thanks so much everyone for your helpful tips. We gave up the fight after replacing the suction line, the check valve, the nipples and putting in a T with a ball valve so that we could fill the suction line with a hose as we tried to prime. STILL NOTHING! We had a well/pump guy come out that's been in the business for 70 years and what we found was a crack just below the nozzle inside of the pump. It was a cheap Lowe's Flotec pump and the inside was practically all plastic. We replaced the pump with a Gould's and we are good to go! It's wonderful to have water again after 6 days without! It was especially entertaining trying to get water to the horses using the neighbors hose and buckets!
P.S. The well man said we have a shallow well (25' deep) so therefore, we have no footvalve. He said only the double line, deep wells have a footvalve. Thanks again so much for all the info! Lisa T.

[speedball1]

We thank you, Lisa, for the update, Happy you're back up and running. If we can ever be of service in the future we're as close as a click. Good luck, Tom

[Ltoothman]

I definitely would check back to this forum if I ever had problems in the future. Thanks so much!

[speedball1]

Lisa, We thank you for the update and am happy you're all fixed up.
Jliisenbe and MGD,
Do I understand that if the check valve's located on top next to the pump that the water in the suction pipe would drain back down in the well leaving the suction pipe full of air?
That's not going to happen unless the check valve's leaking, Especially on a 25' well.
In my area in shallow wells we don't install foot valves. Our check valves are installed next to the pump,(see image) To prove my point, take a straw and fill it with water and hold your finger over the end. Your finger acts like a check valve preventing the water from running out of the straw just exactly like a check valve located next to the pump. So I say again. If you have a faulty foot valve, since the point's still functioning why not skip the hassle of pulling and replacing the foot valve simply install a new check valve on the surface? And your thoughts? Regards, Tom

[jlisenbe]

I suspect you are entirely correct UNLESS the checkvalve, as in this case, is replaced. In that case, you will have 25' (or whatever) of air in the pipe below the CV since you will break suction when the old CV is removed (like removing your finger from the straw). How do you get that 25' of wellpipe filled with water if there is no footvalve? Will priming the 3 feet of pipe from the CV to the pump be enough? That doesn't sound right to me, but maybe so.

I might add that I have no experience at all with this type of well. In our area, we only wish we had water 20 feet down.

[speedball1]

In my area we have shallow well sprinkler systems. All our CV's are above ground. You ask.

How do you get that 25' of wellpipe filled with water if there is no footvalve? Will priming the 3 feet of pipe from the CV to the pump be enough?

Exactly! Think about it! When a new well's installed with a above ground CV how do you think they pull the water up that pipe filled with air?
That's right sport fans, he primes the pump and turns it on. This is the way it's done in my area. Convinced? Cheers, Tom

[jlisenbe]

I stand (I'm actually sitting) corrected.

[mygirlsdad77]

I agree completely Tom. You can prime the well pipe by priming the pump, just takes awhile, as you have to prime the pump more than once. I guess we just always put foot valves and check valve (with prime ports on both sides of check valve), then fill the pump and the well pipe with water, turn her on and presto, you have water. Either way will work, just different strokes for different folks. A screen on the drop pipe in the well is always a good option too, and since there is already one on a foot, we just install a foot valve instead of a plain screen. Great back and forth here guys. Take care.

[Ltoothman]

Hello again,

No water issue has definitely been corrected by replacing the pump. However, we cannot seem to get all the air out of our pipes. Any suggestions? I tried opening all faucets starting with the closest and working to the back of the house and then closing them all vice versa. This works for a little while and usually the next morning we have strong air pockets in the system. What are we missing?

Thanks!
Lisa

[mygirlsdad77]

I would start by installing a foot valve in the well. Of course, you probably guessed I would say that. You may also have another leak on the suction line causing the pump to draw air. Do you only experience air in the morning when first using water, or all throughout the day?

[Ltoothman]

It comes and goes throughout the day.