[talaniman]

Its not a matter of them exploiting workers in the new plant, not at all. Its if they exploit the workers in the old plant, is what the lawsuit is about.

[tomder55]

Then Steve is right... the case is baseless.

[talaniman]

That's what judges are for right? To consider the merits of a case based on the facts, and the rule of law? Not some idealogical feelings?

You and Steve make lousy judges wouldn't you? Wonder what those workers would feel like when the old plant closes and the new one picks up more contracts, and what the new plant will be like, when they close that one, and move to India, South America, or Europe, where the rest of there corporation is?

Can't happen huh? Wrong! It has already, and been happening for decades. But you love that free market don't you?? Seen the economy lately, the global economy?? That's a direct result of the free market gone wild.

Hope the workers don't get thrown to the mercy of those "activist" judges repubs warn us about! That's another "Current Event" though.

[speechlesstx]

You apparently don't like win-win either. And funny they Texas, a right-to-work state as you know, has created more jobs than most states out together. That's the free market. Oh, and Boeing has facilities here as well and they still added jobs in Washington.

[tomder55]

If they prevent Boeing from opening a domestic plant they surely will move overseas .Yes I like the free market a lot ;and I'm sure you don't mind all the foreign companies who have opened shop here and employ American workers .
What you forget is that the free market is a 2 way street . Foreign owned companies account for the hiring of millions of American workers and servicing their operations multitudes more. Whole communities have been revived with foreign investment here .

But re-live the mistakes of the 1930s .We are well on our way .

[excon]

That's the free market. Oh, and Boeing has facilities here as well and they still added jobs in Washington.

Hello again, Steve:

May I remind you that Boeing is adding jobs because they got an ORDER - NOT because "uncertainty" has been eliminated.

excon

[talaniman]

Without demand there is no free market, and the mistakes of the 30's was/is the same as now, repubs watering down job growth policies and trying to let the free market do its will.

As to the state I love, and live in Texas, there are more poor people here than in any other part of the country, and true, what's left of corporations that make stuff here are flocking to Texas, and other right to work states for what they always crave, cheap labor, low wages, and no worry about labor problems or raises for decades.

List of the poorest places in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

While its true there are jobs being created, and so many companies here to create them, lets see how they fare in a few years when bread goes up, and the price of gas and doctors, but wages have not! And while we are on Texas still, its no coincidence that the new jobs here are health care, energy, and road construction, your failed stimulus, and student loans, and grants driven by your democratic President.

Just ask the Mexicans about what happened to them when US companies built 4,000 plants just south of the border and gave them jobs, and see where they ended up.

The free market is not the friend of the common man, never has been, so lets not pretend they have the final solution if you pander to them, and let them be free to do whatever they please because they know an honest man must work to eat.

If they were as fair as you say, you wouldn't need a union. But you will see that in the right to work states, when they don't give you raises, insurance, or some family time, then lay you off for easier pickings in India, or Alabama. Or replace you arbitrarily, for the dufus kid whose dad is the boss, and he needs gas money for his porch before he goes off to college.

You'll see all that and more, unless repubs get out of the way of honest, hard working,
People just wanting a good life.

End of another rant. Sorry guys, I guess I am as passionate as you guys are about what you believe.

[cdad]

Its not a matter of them exploiting workers in the new plant, not at all. Its if they exploit the workers in the old plant, is what the lawsuit is about.

Im just not understanding the rant here. In the article you had sited it says:

"The complaint seeks a court order forcing Boeing to establish the second 787 line in Everett, Wash., the unionized home of the company's commercial airplane business."

And when your talking of poor states according to some as far as the newer numbers the poorest state is Missippi.

Here is a list with newer dates the wiki:

The Poorest States In The U.S. (PHOTOS)

[talaniman]

The union is contending the decision for the new plant was a reaction to the contentious nature of the company and union, going back decades.

Just some background,

Feud over nonunion Boeing plant crosses state, party lines | McClatchy

If you want more background follow what happened to steel companies decades ago as they built newer plants and entire towns turned to dust.

What happened to the steel industry in the 70's is being repeated with the - Democratic Underground

That's why I rant, because I know what happens when a company moves, modernizes, and does what it can for the cheapest labor they can get. People get screwed, towns disappear.

First it was immigrants, then middle class workers who were children of immigrants, then third world workers, who's next? Wait a few years when the contracts have been filled, and the layoffs start, they always do.

That's why I rant, (or maybe I love debating my right wing pro corporations buddies, I have a few)

[tomder55]

People get screwed, towns disappear.

So you would lock a company into the town without the choice of relocation ? Yeah it sucks when companies move or industry changes . But that's the way it is . Cities like Pittsburg reinvent themselves when the steel industry moves on . Long Island NY was once heavily dependent on the Aerospace industry too.But Grumman is not the employer it once was ;it moved some jobs out ;got merged with Northrop . The Island diversified ,created smaller business hubs and the small businesses grew and replaced Grumman as the dominant employer . It can be done . The only thing constant in business is change.

[speechlesstx]

Hello again, Steve:

May I remind you that Boeing is adding jobs because they got an ORDER - NOT because "uncertainty" has been eliminated.

Duh. And may I remind you that Obama wants to crush those 1000 jobs in SC because he's a union-minded thug, not because Boeing has done anything wrong. And he will unnecessarily cost untold millions of taxpayer dollars persecuting Boeing to cater to his union cronies and untold millions to Boeing to defend themselves.

[speechlesstx]

As to the state I love, and live in Texas, there are more poor people here than in any other part of the country

Apparently not. You can't get there by the fact that a couple of colonias appear at the top of your list. In fact, you wiki lists Texas 32nd by state.

[talaniman]

That's my point Steve, we can brag about the good that's going on, but fact remains, we haven't done enough. But I guess the people who live in the Texas dirt, with no real name for the dirt, don't count as people. Interesting, just as being 32 out of 50 is a bragging point.

Just like being 5th out of 5 fantasy teams, more work to do, but nothing to brag about... YET!

[speechlesstx]

32nd out of 50 is a heckuva lot better than "more poor people here than in any other part of the country." And of course having 1200 miles of border with Mexico makes a difference in the rankings.

Poor in Texas is a thousand percent better than poor in Mexico, a non-union job in SC is a thousand percent better than no job at all, and my fantasy baseball team just rolls along in first.

[Synnen]

32nd out of 50 is a heckuva lot better than "more poor people here than in any other part of the country." And of course having 1200 of border with Mexican border makes a difference in the rankings.

Poor in Texas is a thousand percent better than poor in Mexico, a non-union job in SC is a thousand percent better than no job at all, and my fantasy baseball team just rolls along in first.

Bingo!

I'd also like to point out that the last time I checked (which was, granted, a couple years ago), TX was 49th of 50 in education. There's definitely a relationship between education levels and employability.

[talaniman]

Originally Posted by speechlesstx
A non-union job in SC is a thousand percent better than no job at all, and my fantasy baseball team just rolls along in first.

Why be satisfied with putting a band aid on a gun shot wound? (giving the job creators even more money, when they have it all already)! Why didn't Boeing just expand where they were?


You are having a great season so far, but its not over yet. Are we going to have a fantasy football league? Count me in.

[speechlesstx]

Why be satisfied with putting a band aid on a gun shot wound? (giving the job creators even more money, when they have it all already)! Why didn't Boeing just expand where they were?

Why can't they expand elsewhere, too, especially if they're still adding jobs in Everett?

You are having a great season so far, but its not over yet. Are we going to have a fantasy football league? Count me in.

We started one a few years back but only had a couple of takers and that league is full. If those two are are willing and/or we can round up a few more I'm in. I always play several leagues.

[tomder55]

Really ? Have we become so totalitarian that we can dictate to a business must that they must stay in a geographic region ;that no other state can benefit from a business relationship with them ? They may have plenty of reasons beyond screwing the employee to open a new plant somewhere else. I knew people on Long Island who routinely travelled between Grumman plants in NY ;Fla ,California ,Tx ,AND OMG overseas . So what ?

[Synnen]

Frankly, if you'd ever SEEN the Everett plant, you might have an idea of why expanding there just isn't feasible.

The plant is so huge that employees have shifts in 6 minute increments otherwise the shifts would be insane for parking, entering, and leaving. And there's no ROOM to create more working space there---they could expand to another place in WA, but why bother if they have a chance to do it more economically someplace else?

PS--Boeing has plants all over the damned place. Some of it has to do with where they are delivering final projects, because their number one customer is still the US government.

[talaniman]

Frankly, if you'd ever SEEN the Everett plant, you might have an idea of why expanding there just isn't feasible.

The plant is so huge that employees have shifts in 6 minute increments otherwise the shifts would be insane for parking, entering, and leaving. And there's no ROOM to create more working space there---they could expand to another place in WA, but why bother if they have a chance to do it more economically someplace else?

PS--Boeing has plants all over the damned place. Some of it has to do with where they are delivering final projects, because their number one customer is still the US government.

Funny how they never bring that up, about the space, but I have to wait and see if they do indeed pay less or have less benefits, and I doubt they would be that blatant.

And lets be clear, I am not against big business, just big business exploiting workers without which, they can't make a dime. No lawsuit will stop the plant, but they will get some clarity on work rules, and business practices.