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Willeyewas · Jul 9, 2011, 07:30 AM

Hello everyone, and thank you for reading this, IT'S VERY COMPLICATED.

This summer was to be our marriage, our journey around Europe, and our victory lap in supporting each other for six years to the top of our two very stressful careers. Now we are free to be together wherever and have no money problems. Alas, just as we turned the final corner, some switched has flipped in her and she's trying to breakup but won't actually do it. She's incredibly mean and abusive now, but at rare moments admits it. I've given her incredible chase, but without imposing myself, and she's spent the majority of this time with me but asking me to leave. This is contradiction in words and action.
It began a month ago, she flew to Europe a week before me and was to meet me when I arrived. A few days after arrival she turned from anxious for me to come to angry at me and not wanting to see me. In my reckoning, she's putting on me what is coming from her mom, who just before she left cut her from the inheritance and told her not to marry me. She was to meet her here, but did not.
Eventually, she did come to meet me. At first she was convinced it would suck and we'd breakup, but the reality soon got though to her and in a couple days she was very happy. Now this is where I think the mental illness comes in. She has a history of this.
She tried, I see in retrospect, to raise my suspicions a few times, and finally resorted to making it dreadfully apparent she was hiding something in her email. I discovered she'd made out with another man in the week before meeting me, and was continuing romantic emails. She's not the type to move on so quickly, and immediately I recognized this as self-destructive, sabotage.
A fight ensued, she began punching and kicking me and for the first time I was physically aggressive, albeit a spanking.
She left, but a few days later wrote that she wanted to make it work. She asked for a break. This I couldn't do as we've tried that before and the result was ten months of lying and cheating while neither wanted to be apart.
Now a month later I've followed her to where she is. I had no where to go as we rented out our apartment and planned everything around this summer together.

I'm 29, and my fiancée is 31. We're both Aries, though I'm a skeptic of the zodiac in our cases the shoe fits.

We have an intense love, admired by many, even published in magazines and online, we get along like so few have ever seen or known.

I've never been in love or committed before. She's a serial dater, and either left abruptly without warning for lack of interest or was really badly hurt, usually cheated on.

We've lived together since the get go. On the other hand, we've spent long spans of time long distances apart. This was never easy, and often lead to near breakups.

I have severe abandonment issues, no close friends and a cold family. She is a recluse, inside, yet surrounds herself with a family she misleads and a group of friends who just enable her.
Whenever shed breakup with me, I'd always grovel and pine and abandon my own life to save the most important things for me. This isn't such a big deal, though, as I have little attachment to anything but love. My resolve to fight for her has shown her she can trust me without end. Now I fear she's taking this too far.

Since I "invaded her sanctuary" by following her to this island paradise (where she cheated on me) she's been angry that I came but spent the majority of time with me. She helped me find a place and then ended up staying here many nights.
Now she's been gone four days. She emails me angrily but still won't say she wants to end it, only that she's angry and needs time.

I am beyond viruses and this post, as long as it is, barely sums it up. So much is missing.

I'm not the type to fall apart if she leves, she's put me through it so many times. My concern is that she'll do stupid things and end up coming back to me once I give up.

Her emails these last days have said that she wants to spend her life with me but will give that up if our relationship doesn't improve. She admits she's so mean right now and I'm unbelievably kind, but then turns face and lists all my flaws. Thing is, she's nuts, the things she says aren't true of me but of her.

Oh man, what can I do?

talaniman · Jul 9, 2011, 11:43 AM

You can learn to let go of this toxic relationship or spend the rest of your life with more of the same.

Your mistake my friend, is leaving the decision to her about your future, instead of making your own decision and living with it. Do so now, but me, I would have disappeared long ago, and built a healthy life that I enjoyed for myself without her in it.

Don't blame her for being nuts, or whatever, when its you sitting there allowing her to treat you like a shoe, she can wear when it pleases her.

What a complete waste of time, energy, and emotion.

BK201 · Jul 9, 2011, 12:06 PM

Cheat is a cheat no matter what, and for sure, this event will not disappear from both of your mind. No regrets, you have done all you can, enough of chasing, take control now. Disappear from her life if there is nothing that you can do anymore.

amicon · Jul 9, 2011, 12:08 PM

Your life is your life -no one else is in charge of what you do.

It's time to walk away from this mess and find a life that makes you happy!

Willeyewas · Jul 9, 2011, 03:30 PM

Thanks everyone. These are some hard hitting, honest answers. As a new yorker I have a special appreciation for the honesty of strangers.

Problem is, I'm not ready to give up. I see this as mental illness. Like any other malady, this should not be viewed as a permanent fault of the sufferer. True, I'm suffering as well, but only because I love her. I could choose to not care, and I guess that might be good for her, but infortunately that's not my nature. I've seen many friends through bouts of full-on insanity, and they've now got me to thank for standing by them. She's the one that stood by me in my depression, and I'm a loyal man.

When and if the time comes to protect myself, trust, I'll do it. I'm here, on this forum, spread eagle with my deepest secrets to the world. I'm making the first step in dealing with what might go wrong in me, or may have already.

Until then, I will fight. When his head is severed, a true samurai can stay alive long enough to defend his charge. I was aware of these issues when I proposed to her.

I hold onto the belief, substantiated, that this is the last bend in the road before we reach "marital bliss." I'm humble enough to accept defeat, but that hasn't happened yet.

I'm asking this forum to give me their best answers as to how I can help her. I know leaving and letting her chase me is the easy answer, but I'm not able to do it. I just can't. Quitting on her is quitting on everything I stand for. I won't even feign it, I mean what I say and won't say to her it's over unless I mean it.

Please, if you can, what can I do to get her to address her issues?

This is the kind of case where mentally ill person has overcompensated to the utmost degree, to reinforce their denial. What they need to do is admit they need help, the very factor I've seen in my friends who've made it through much worse scenarios than she suffers now. But hers is now more critical, as she says "I can handle this myself," when that's apparently not been true for decades. She has multiple degrees in counseling others in the very conditions she suffers from, and I fear there are even layers of issues beneath.

If I abandon her, to protect myself, I will have to live with knowing that I alone was entrusted with the knowledge and therefore the ability to call her out. It seems to me that her demons are injured and cornered by me, I see them, know their weak spots, and tried already to confront them.

Don't worry about me if this has to end, worry more that a good man is imploring you to help a sick woman.

talaniman · Jul 9, 2011, 04:10 PM

Then you be honest mighty warrior, and tell her you are tired of the crap, and if she can't help herself, neither can you, but you won't tolerate being abused by her.

Maybe you are on a mission, but if she is the obstacle and refuses to do the right thing for herself, then she must be on her own. And just to be clear, why are you intent on marriage to someone who has issues that they don't address? If she wants help give it to her, if she doesn't, marriage will change NOTHING. Then you have to pay her own consequences.

I respect your loyalty, and don't question your love. Loved a few crazy nuts myself, but I do question your judgment, and your methods. 8 years is a mighty long time to fight a losing battle. Make sure she isn't the only one in denial.

BK201 · Jul 9, 2011, 10:04 PM

If forgiven not forgotten is the deal, then it would really help you if you can somehow get her to meet professionals. I am not sure if she has told you actually why she is doing all these things. Or has she opened her mind and told you everything? I bet she must be knowing what you are going through, but she might be thinking that you don't know the other end of her and that might be the reason she is agitated. But she should also know, unless she tell it all to you, there is no way anyone can help. Let her know this and make her open it up.

Willeyewas · Jul 10, 2011, 12:24 PM

Thanks again. These last two answers are getting closer to the point and I've drawn something useful from them. I should find a way to tell her I can't help her - no one can, not even her - without her accepting it and being totally honest.

To clarify, it hasn't been eight years of this. She told me early on she had severe problems as a kid and never told anyone, at least not as much as she's told me. Two years ago they resurfaced and I tried to call her out but she denied it. Well, until our breakup, when she admitted it and said she'd handle it on her own. She didn't seem to get the job done, but the major symptoms did go away so I gave it to her on that credit that she may be able to handle it in her own.

This time, the usual symptoms aren't present, and it seems layers to the onion are peeling back. It's a form of progress in a way, getting down to the deeper issues, but this is obviously not real healing, with so much denial and other self destructive behaviors.

The time has come for her to admit she can't handle it herself, but she sees me as the only one to confront her this way and perhaps this is why she's pushing me away. In this way she's begun pushing away the couple's counselor, a fully qualified psychologist, as in our last session she began to ask her to look deeper in herself.

I don't believe I'm in denial, as hard as that is to say without sounding like I'm in denial. I've had many friends go though stuff, I've been through stuff, and I can smell it when I'm not being straight with myself. Dishonesty and I don't mix well, and I actually feel quite at ease given the circumstances. It was much harder at irt, when I didn't realize what was happening with her and took everything she said seriously. By now I see she's not making sense, and not saying what she means, and this indication of what's really going on at least means I understand more what's happenig.

talaniman · Jul 10, 2011, 02:24 PM

Your risk, your reward. Good luck.

Willeyewas · Jul 16, 2011, 05:45 AM

So, she's finally back, after a week. I tried to break up with her. I called her out or blaming her mental illness on me and walked off. I started the thought process of moving on. Ten minutes later she showed up and was nice to me for once! I was PISSED, confused and crying when she wasn't looking.
Two days later she's back again. Spent the night. Won't give me even a good night kiss.
Last night I was erratic and couldn't sleep. I hacked into her phone (my phone) and saw that she's been with the other guy, even naked photos. I asked her who she went with, she lied. I asked if she's hung out with him alone, she lied that it was always with others.
Also I found emails with a guy she was with from the year we were apart, apologizing for the 'recent drama.' also he wrote about drugs she was using.
I asked in a roundabout way and she lied each time.
I'm resisting the urge to take back my things from her and throw her out on her ***. Only this f****ing love bug is stopping me.
She's acting like she wants to stay together, but not saying so. It's just making it harder for me to dump her.
I'm even beginning to think bad thoughts involving the tensile strength of skulls and rocks.

BK201 · Jul 16, 2011, 06:07 AM

The more you are going to be with her the harder it is going to become. Seriously, you don't need to dirty your hands by doing any tensile testing. Let us say, may be, you won't love anyone again like the way you loved her. But that does not mean that you can be with her anymore after all that you have seen with your own eyes. Do you think that you can change her, and take her back after all this?
You were not the reason for her faults to begin with. What are you planning to do now?

talaniman · Jul 16, 2011, 08:35 AM

Well guy, you know what you got to do, dump her for good and be done with it.

amicon · Jul 16, 2011, 09:06 AM

Seriously,just dump her-come on how many more rounds of this do you need??

Willeyewas · Jul 16, 2011, 10:16 AM

Awww sheeeet!! I must be the biggest sucker ever born. I can't do it! She's my first. Only. I just can't do it! I have no proof she's slept with anyone, yet I know I don't need that - I've got enough reason FOR SURE and the deeply disturbing up part is I'm the one pleading for another chance? Sometimes I think I just want to get her back so I can find out the truth later and be the one to end it - but I know that's not true.

Yes, I probably will go through another round, in the hopes that it will be the last. Why? Because I'm human. Blame it on my mom not giving me enough love, my dad not being there, not getting the girl I liked in high school, a deviated septum, whatever. I'm human.

I mean, I know you're all correct, it's basically a matter of fact - I deserve better and this is beyond unhealthy. I guess what I'm trying to say is I don't know where to find the strength. It's so easy to deem someone's relationship bad for them, like a video game like SIMs or something - just right-click and select drop it like a rock. Beep beep done.

I know what my personal process for dealing with loss is deep, long drawn out depression in isolation, on my feet walking, not knowing where my next meal comes from or caring to remember where I was this morning. Now I'm finally 'somewhere' in my life, 'someone' to speak of. Like I said, I'm not much for atta hment too much else besides love, and I fear that giving up on her love will result in a long sojourn where I'll give up on everything I'm working towards to retain my last bit of self-love I got left.

talaniman · Jul 16, 2011, 11:15 AM

Make some adjustments to your personal process of dealing with loss.

It doesn't have to be so dark, it can be a celebration of acceptance, if you so choose.

Willeyewas · Jul 23, 2011, 01:52 AM

Oh my lord, can it get worse.

So, yeah, I'm over it, an it's so strange because it's just as she's starting to want me back. Believe this:

Tuesday she left early. I told her I saw her emailing the guy, that she was only staying with me until the other guy got back, and stayed longer only because he missed the ferry.

She denied it, said it meant something she was with me not him. I said I'd she leaves I know it's to see him. She said I had nothing to worry about, they weren't having sex, she can't imagine being with anyone else because I'm so kind and devoted. She repeated this over two days. Also that she wasn't interested in sex with others.

She slept in my bed the last night. I tried to seduce her, and she let me try but I got nowhere. I asked what I needed to do to get her to open up, she answered that I shouldn't worry about her sleeping with others.

A day later, I bugged out. I did some 'research' and found the dude's number, called him. Asked him to be a man and tell me what's up. He said he hadn't seen her, wasn't going to ever again (and neither would I) and that they'd not had sex. So I thought Good, she told me the truth. I will see her in a month in California.

Next morning I did more 'research' and found the hostel she was staying at (I'm good). I called, they said she still here, and went to get her. Then, the dude answered and told me off. Told me they'd been having sex and it was a serious relationship. I was relieved! Finally the truth! She'd been playing me to have her summer fling and take me back when she wanted. Not me! Not anymore, or so I thought.

So that night she left this island to go see her girlfriend. She started writing me in a bit more inviting way, but still abusively. She wrote me she had a good dream about me and her, that she's left so I wouldn't have to worry, no guys for me to trip about. She said she slept alone, outside, and only went to see dude to get her things and say goodbye, I felt relieved. She wants to stay together but can't stand me right now. Blah blah blah. Asked me to bring her charger to her on my way back to the states!

Like a stupid puppy, I lept at the opportunity to see her. She said pack up and be ready, she would ask if I can come. Then she says OK but 'Albanians will kill you for your things.' when I debunked that, she complained about traffic eventually I said I'm buying this ticket if you don't give me answer. I was only going to stay two days, then she asked me to stay four. ***

Here's where it gets "stranger than fiction." I went to the bookshop to return more "borrowed without permission" items she left in my house. I'd also turned in the dude for stealing high-ticket items, which I knew about through my 'research.' He was supposed to return the items yesterday, so I waited until I thought he would be at work to return what I had so as to avoid him. Lo and behold, there he was, minutes after I arrived.

We got off to a gentlemanly start. I suggested we buy a beer and chat. We talked for an hour. He confirmed that they were having sex, wouldn't answer if they used protection (so, no), that she had stayed with him the last night and every night she wasn't with me. He also confirmed she had left the island, that they had no future together. He expressed disgust with me for not letting her go, that she only saw me to try and break up. I explained to him that she had not been doing that, but talking to me seriously about staying together, looked at rings with me, talked about the future and how to make it work. Even about getting a better shrink to identify her issues. At the end he said now he was disgusted by her, felt he'd been duped, and that he couldn't imagine why I'd take her back. I told him I agreed completely.

I am scared about my inability to leave her.

So, tonight I fly to meet her. I don't want to have sex with her. I don't want to have her back. But of course I do, still, somewhere. I hope I can be strong enough to just treat her the way she's been treating me.

I don't think he'll tell her about our chat. We'll see if she beings up anything.

I just can't believe it. She was never this way, she was so pure, loyal, honest, loving and committed. Now it seems she's become her own worst enemy, the same girl she used to talk **** about. I even suspect she got down with a nasty threesome group here, almost as soon as she arrived.

Can I forgive this on grounds of mental illness? Even so, can I take her back? If I tell her to f••k off, and then she comes back, is it ever possible she won't do this again? I can't do an open relationship. I can't. It seems more and more that she has implied this is what she wants.

BK201 · Jul 23, 2011, 02:46 AM

Do not mistake me, if I were your friend I would give a tight knock on your head and say, mike, it is enough... This isn't mental illness.
What more proof do you need? You have tried all you could to seek a possibility that somehow everything was a lie. But things did not turn out that way, and its taking a turn to the worst. Do not underestimate yourself. No one is an option for someone. You got to be stronger. You do not know that there are other mountains to climb, until you get down from this mountain. Do you not feel like this is the limit? Or no more. I'll pray for you to be strong for one time and break it off completely.

J_9 · Jul 23, 2011, 03:04 AM

Yes, the truth is stranger than fiction!

Are you currently in counseling yourself? If not, I would highly recommend it. You need to learn how to detox yourself from your addiction to this woman.

It's really time to grow a pair and tell her that you are done being her doormat. You are a very mature articulate man, it shouldn't be too hard for you to find a woman who actually loves you.

amicon · Jul 23, 2011, 04:07 AM

No, you can't do any of those thing-what you can do is walk away and get a life.

Jeepers!
(Bangs head on desk.)

talaniman · Jul 23, 2011, 10:32 AM

If you reread this whole thing carefully, a number of facts start to surface,

We see who has mental illness, (you), and who is in denial (you), and who doesn't know when to quit (you), and who is a glutton for punishment (you).

What's most apparent, is who has the power to change things (you), and who needs a very swift kick in the a$$ (YOU)!!

How dare you sir, keep blaming all your problems on her! She is a first class lying cheating beeyatch for sure, don't get me wrong, but lets be real, the actual problem is what you have done about it.

8 years?? Naw YOU are the one with the problem, NOT her. At least you are a good snoop, but lacking sorely in the dignity, and self respect department.