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bnymbill · Feb 8, 2007, 08:38 AM

I have a Goodman furnace (I think, that's what the guy who came to give me an estimate for having central air installed said) and it won't ignite. I had a vent blocked to one room in the house because I was scraping paint and didn't want the dust in the ducts. It was blocked for about 20 hours. When I got home from work yesterday, the temperature was reading the lowest possible on the thermostat, 50 degrees. I went in the basement and followed the instructions to turn off the electricity to the furnace, set the thermostat as low as possible and then turn the gas switch off. I waited five minutes, turned the switch on, turned on the electricity and turned up the thermostat. It was making the usual noise that it does before it lights, but it just wouldn't light, so I followed the steps to turn off the gas. I'm guessing my problem is the ignitor, which I didn't see glow or light up even a little bit. From reading other websites I think I should convert my ignitor to with a kit from the B140108S carbide ignitor to the 0230K00000S, which is supposed to be more durable/longer lasting. Is it purely coincidence that my ignitor would go bad from having a vent blocked or did that force air back in the system and cause something else to malfunction? Is installing the conversion kit safe for me to do as a novice? I guess I should keep the gas off while installing - anything else I should be aware of?

THANKS!

ballengerb1 · Feb 8, 2007, 08:52 AM

It does sound like a total coincidence. Most handy home owner can install a furnace ignitor. If you are'nt sure how handy you are then you mat want to call in a pro.

labman · Feb 8, 2007, 09:13 AM

Having the vent blocked should have nothing to do with the ignitor. They are on opposite sides of the heat exchanger. Have you checked the sticky at the top of the heating forum? It has some excellent material on furnace problems prepared by a real expert. If you need more details, post back.

bnymbill · Feb 8, 2007, 09:54 AM

Originally Posted by bnymbill

I have a Goodman furnace (I think, that's what the guy who came to give me an estimate for having central air installed said) and it won't ignite. I had a vent blocked to one room in the house because I was scraping paint and didn't want the dust in the ducts. It was blocked for about 20 hours. When I got home from work yesterday, the temperature was reading the lowest possible on the thermostat, 50 degrees. I went in the basement and followed the instructions to turn off the electricity to the furnace, set the thermostat as low as possible and then turn the gas switch off. I waited five minutes, turned the switch on, turned on the electricity and turned up the thermostat. It was making the usual noise that it does before it lights, but it just wouldn't light, so I followed the steps to turn off the gas. I'm guessing my problem is the ignitor, which I didn't see glow or light up even a little bit. From reading other websites I think I should convert my ignitor to with a kit from the B140108S carbide ignitor to the 0230K00000S, which is supposed to be more durable/longer lasting. Is it purely coincidence that my ignitor would go bad from having a vent blocked or did that force air back in the system and cause something else to malfunction? Is installing the conversion kit safe for me to do as a novice? I guess I should keep the gas off while installing - anything else I should be aware of?

THANKS!

I was pretty sure it was a coincidence, so that's good. I'm planning on replacing the ignitor, but I'm having a hell of a time finding one. One hardware store I called has a similar one I can for $48, but they couldn't tell me the model number of the part - all they said was it wasn't the one I requested. I can order one online, but I'm in Baltimore and it is pretty cold - I don't really want to wait a couple days. Any suggestions on finding the part? When I take out the old ignitor, how will I be able to tell if it is in fact "bad" and the cause of the problem? How long should it take to light once I turn the gas and power on and turn up the thermostat? Are electric ignitors like the burners on an electric stove - they take a few minutes to heat up? Last night I let the blower run for a couple minutes before I went back in the basement and turned everything off. Should I repeat the relight process and let it run longer - maybe the ignitor is fine?

Thanks again.

labman · Feb 8, 2007, 11:08 AM

There are different styles of ignitors. Most of them just get hot enough to set the gas on fire. If so, a quick check for continuity with an ohmmeter will show a bad one as an open. You should be able to see a good one heat almost as soon as the furnace starts its cycle.

Try a Goodman dealer or a plumbing and heating supply.

bnymbill · Feb 8, 2007, 12:30 PM

Okay, I was able to track down a gardner bender 12 range analog tester. It tests AC/DC voltage, DC current, resistance and decibels. For ohms, I will be looking at resistance. Below is the link to a page that shows what the currentthe current ignitor looks like and what the new mini conversion looks like. How will I use the tester on the current ignitor? I've been reading online to refresh my memory (science class was too long ago) - I'm supposed to connect the black, then red leads to different sides of the ignitor to get a reading. In the picture on the website, the two prongs are connected, so where would I put the black and red leads? Do I have one on the prongs and one in the white "plug" end?

Goodman Janitrol Parts

Thanks again.

labman · Feb 8, 2007, 01:50 PM

You have the little plug with the 2 wires. Just connect the red lead to one contact, and the black to the other. You should get fairly high reading, but not off scale.

bnymbill · Feb 8, 2007, 02:45 PM

Thanks a lot. You have been very helpful. I don't have internet access at home, so tomorrow (or late tonight - sleeping at work because it's too damn cold) I will let you know how it goes. Hopefully it's nothing more than the ignitor and I can get and replace the part tomorrow for $89.

Thanks again.

bnymbill · Feb 9, 2007, 06:41 AM

Okay, I went to Lowe's and got a Sperry digital multimeter. I went home and followed the steps to turn the furnace on. I got a humming noise, not the blower like I though yesterday because no air was coming out of the vents. I also heard a loud click, I think it was trying to ignite. So I shut everything down, waited a while and took out the ignitor. When I turn the ohm meter on at first I couldn't get it to read anything but the "1" that comes up when you turn it on. I wiggled the leads around and the reading jumped around from 1100 to 1800. The carbide appears to be in a little rough shape - it has white discoloration on the bottom and slight discoloration on the top. There also appears to be a crack in one of the prongs, but it is not loose. I guess this means the ignitor is okay and I have a more serious problem and should probably call a pro. When I tried to turn it on again, I looked for the indicator/diagnostic light, but couldn't see anything. It says that the panel over the control board must be on except when servicing and it has a button that is pushed in by the cover when the cover is on - I figured if I pulled cover off, releasing the button, it would turn off anyway, so I didn't try to take off the panel or turn it on with the panel off. Based on the huming noise, the click, and the reading from the ignitor, what seems to be the problem? I'll probably call company to take a look if it might be something too serious, but I want to make sure they don't tell me 5 things that need to be replaced.

Thanks.

labman · Feb 9, 2007, 07:10 AM

Maybe we have missed something here. The control won't power the ignitor until it gets a signal from the pressure switch that he inducer blower is running. Is it? The usual noise on starting? I made a general reference to the sticky, but I think you need to look at the start up sequence,
https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/heatin...tml#post268970

Northern Heat did a fine job on that sticky. We should be using it more.

bnymbill · Feb 9, 2007, 08:26 AM

It sounds like the blower motor is running because the noise I'm hearing wouldn't be the pressure switch, but nothing, not even cool air is coming out of the ducts - I guess it doesn't actually start blowing until the air is warm. How do I tell if I have a pressure switch that opens to prove venting? I may have a blocked vent or vacuum hose if I do (it may be blocked either way, but should not prevent heating if it doesn't open to prove venting). The only other thing before lighting is the draft inducer plower purges the heat exchanger - how can I tell if this is not happening? This seems to be the step where the breakdown occurs. I've only been in the house a week, but I think it is the usual noise on starting - blower motor. Not sure what that loud click was. At least the problem has been narrowed down to somewhere between the pressure switch and draft inducer because the ignitor is OK and it's getting power from the thermostat.

labman · Feb 9, 2007, 08:47 AM

The pressure switch is a small, flat, round thing with a hose and 2 wires. The hose comes out of the vent between the inducer blower and the heat exchanger and the wires run to the controls. I think it should close when the blower runs. Getting at its contacts to see if it is closed and the contacts for the ignitor to see if it has power is a pain. Of course nothing happens without holding in the door switch. If you have managed to measure power to it, and it has power, but does not get hot, then it is bad no matter what other readings you have.

Carefully read through the start up sequence. There are sensors each step of the way that stop the sequence if anything fails.

bnymbill · Feb 9, 2007, 02:04 PM

Right, I checked out the pictures and descriptions and went through the steps up to ignition. Is there any way to make sure I have a good ignitor? Then I can work backwards through the prior two steps. A service man is coming out Monday - they charge $99 total for diagnostics and labor - plus the cost of parts (which are double what they are online). Is experience with furnaces the only way he will be able to tell me if the ignitor is bad - there is no way to test it?

labman · Feb 9, 2007, 03:32 PM

Usually if the ignitor has continuity, it is good. If you can tell what voltage it should have, maybe you can apply it and see if it heats up. If not, it is bad.

T-Top · Feb 9, 2007, 06:57 PM

When you turn your thermostat to call for heat - Inducer motor must run (small motor center of furnace). It will close the pressure switch(small pancake device with wires and rubber tubbing). The pressure switch is your first safety on start up. If it does not close it will not give 24 volts to ignitor. If the pressure switch is not closing, it could be a vent pipe restricted,bad wheel on inducer motor or sticking pressure switch. Take the small tube off the pressure switch and blow and suck lightly on the tube(you should hear it click). Put the tube back and try it again. Let us know what happens.

letmetellu · Feb 9, 2007, 10:01 PM

If you can see the crack in the prong that means that the carbide is broken and is not making a circuit and will not glow and you need to get a new one. The price should be in the $20 to $30 dollar range. If you can not find one with the right connections you can cut the wires and change the connector to the one that came off your ignitor. JUST MAKE SURE THAT THE MOUNTING BRACKET WILL WORK. Be sure and use porcelain wire nuts to connect the wires. BY NO MEANS DO NOT TOUCH THE CARBIDE PORTION OF THE IGNITOR WITH YOUR FINGERS THE OIL IN YOUR BODY WILL MAKE THEM BURN OUT FASTER.

bnymbill · Feb 10, 2007, 08:05 AM

Thanks guys! Can prongs crack during normal operation? Is that what happens when they get worn out? It was working one day and then not the next, so if that crack is the problem, then it happened in the furnace - or if they don't crack during operation, did I crack it taking it out? The only place I have been able to find has the ignitor upgrade kit (0230K00001) for $89. I'm trying to track down the regular ignitor B140108S to see if it is in the $30 range. The crack isn't all the way through and the part of the prong past the crack isn't loose because of the crack, would that still keep it from making a circuit?

Thanks again

bnymbill · Feb 10, 2007, 08:17 AM

Hey guys, how often do ignitors fail? Is it work my while to go ahead an buy a new one or the conversion kit and try it... assuming that mine will go bad at some point. It is non-returnable and I don't really want to spend $90 on it if I won't need it. My cell number is 301-481-5138 - no internet at home and I may be messing around with the furnace.

Thanks

letmetellu · Feb 10, 2007, 10:18 AM

The hot surface Igniter is very fragile and the slightest bump can crack them, I am not sure if you broke this one or not but usually if they have been broken for a while you will see white on the prong where the crack is, like it has been arcing.
My suggestion is for you to go to the nearest goodman dealer and beg for mercy to see if they will sell you one, or go to a dealer of Goodman

bnymbill · Feb 10, 2007, 10:21 AM

Okay, I picked up the mini ignitor conversion kit for $56 and will try it this evening when I get home from work. If it doesn't work, I'll try clearing the hose. In the insturctions it says it is NOT approved for GSU model furnaces at this time. Places that sell it online say it can be used in the GSU. I have not been able to find the model of my furnace. I bought the house last Wednesday and have no paperwork. How can I tell if I have a GSU model?