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tanneranders · May 16, 2011, 08:02 PM

A little background. My son-in-law had a little spill out of the shower, hitting the toilet on the way down. This knocked the toilet completely loose. I was amazed that both brass closet bolts could snap so easily. Well after removing the toilet and scraping up the wax, I could see why.

This was not a standard closet flange with slots for the bolts. It is cast iron with the bolts set right into the iron, and snapped clean off, with no way to remove them.

My first thought was an Oatey Cast Iron Flange Replacement.

At this point, I've run into three problems.

First, the flange is too long. In the pic, you can see that just a couple inches down, the pipe curves. I found that by removing the bottom sections of the flange, it will fit, but with no seal. So I figured come sealant is in order. This is the least of the problems.

Second, the holes in the flange sit above the old iron pipe/flange, so I can't secure it. Perhaps drilling through the iron is an option?

Third -and this is the kicker- when inserted, the top of the new flange sits almost a full inch above the floor. Needless to say, the toilet is well off the ground when sitting on it, even without the wax ring installed.

So I guess what I need to do is somehow remove the old iron flange, exposing the floor beneath, and somehow lower the top of the pipe a bit. I have read that a whack with a chisel should crack the flange and allow for removal from the pipe, but I want more information before I attempt this.

I don't see a distinctive seam between the flange and the pipe. Where is it? Does the iron flange just go around the outside of the pipe? Is that the transition I'm seeing between lighter and darker metal on top? Or what?

Any help would be appreciated.

ballengerb1 · May 16, 2011, 08:08 PM

Sorry Tanner but this looks like alead pipe. I been fixing plumbing for 45 years an almost never seen one. Just to test my thinking try scratching this with a pocket knife, if cast you'll barely make a mark but lead you make a sharp bright silver gouge

tanneranders · May 16, 2011, 08:12 PM

Yep, you seem to be correct. But the flange around the outside is almost definitely cast iron. If this is the case, then it seems to be that cracking the flange from around the pipe would actually be easier now, as the pipe is not likely to crack with it.

Also, lead would be softer and easier to cut/grind off than iron as well, so is there a reason that this would not make the job simpler?

massplumber2008 · May 17, 2011, 05:54 AM

Hi guys...

That lead pipe and cast iron flange look to be in pretty darn good shape!

I'm thinking you may be best to simply drill out the old brass bolts and purchase a new wood screw set of closet bolts and then screw a new set into the floor... may work?

If not, another option would be to go out and purchase a 5/16" tap and a 9/32" drill bit (double check these numbers at place of purchase) and drill through the brass bolts/cast iron flange in place now and retap for new 5/16" toilet bolts. Here, you would just drill out the old brass bolts plus and inch or so below the flange so the tap could tap past the flange and then tap the flange to make new threads for the toilet bolts....just insert tap and turn multiple times being sure to keep the tap straight while spinning into the flange. For a tap this small you shouldn't need any oil to reduce friction, but if you want to add a couple drops of oil, go ahead.

Then, all you would need to do is to cut the end off of a pair of 5/16" toilet bolts and thread them into the flange. Install the wax gasket and be done wiuth this without having to mess with the lead piping or that flange... especially seeing how it is such good shape.

That's my thoughts, but I would wait until Ballengerb1 (Bob) pops back in to get his thoughts as well... like he said, he has 45 years messing with this stuff... may have better idea yet!

Mark

tanneranders · May 18, 2011, 11:33 PM

I'm really just hoping that someone can affirm that my plan of cracking and removing the flange then cutting down the pipe is a sound one.

This way, the toilet will be attached to a modern closet flange so that in the future, nobody runs into the problems I'm having.

ballengerb1 · May 19, 2011, 06:45 AM

Sorry Mark and Manner but my experience with lead pipe is so limited I can help further

massplumber2008 · May 19, 2011, 09:19 AM

Tanneranders...

I'm afraid your idea of cracking the old flange is OK, but you would not cut the lead, you would just lift the edges up so that you could drop a new BRASS flange over the lead pipe again and then peen the lead back over the flange... that's how flange replacement is done with these... ;)

If you pursue this, you would need to be very careful that you don't puncture or tear the lead or you'll be ripping the entire lead pipe out before you know it!

In my opinion, I wouldn't even mess with any of it. I would do as I suggested at my first post... drill the old bolts out and install new ones. Here, the only time we mess with a cast iron flange is if it is cracked and broken and your flange isn't... just has sheared bolts. Follow my instructions above and you should be all set with few issues!

More questions? Just let me know, OK?

Good luck!

Mark