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smoothy · May 5, 2011, 07:38 PM

Originally Posted by excon

Hello again, tom:

The Constitutional distinction is a declaration of war. You can't have the benefits of a war without declaring it..

Therefore, there is no such distinction in the law as "enemy combatants. Without a declaration of war, there are only criminals. That would endow them with Constitutional rights. These criminals committed their crime in NY City. Seems to me, they should be tried in NY City.

Bush had a chance to follow the Constitution. He could have asked for a declaration of war. He would have gotten it. He chose not to. There's repercussions for doing that.

excon

Um... Obamas been in office for almost 2 and a half years and started ANOTHER war in Libya...

There STILL isn't a declaration of war... and That's not Bushes fault. In fact... Dems controlled everything until this past election. Time to stop blaming Bush and start blaming the Democrats. THEY had plenty of time to declare a war IF it was really needed.

W isn't running a shadow government from Crawford after all.

excon · May 5, 2011, 07:49 PM

Originally Posted by smoothy

There STILL isn't a declaration of war....and THATS not Bushes fault. In fact....Dems controlled everything until this past election. Time to stop blaming Bush and start blaming the Democrats.

Hello again, smoothy:

You've been wandering around the legal boards for a while, so you SHOULD have a sense of the law... Bush did some things that have LEGAL ramifications that outlast his presidency. The things he did, DIDN'T go away when he left for Crawford. Some of those things we're dealing with NOW.

Now, you can IGNORE those things by choosing to only look back 2.5 years to find out what the problem is... But, you'd be fooling yourself.

excon

smoothy · May 5, 2011, 07:52 PM

SO... the typical liberal argument... YOU have to follow a different set of rules and laws than WE do?

Obama is in charge... IF any of them were illegal there was unfettered chances to end them all or set things right when the dems controlled everything.

And incidentally... BUSH as much as the left can't stand the fact of... isn't Subject to any laws THEY aren't.

The Dems AREN'T exempt so they are every bit as guilty of everything you are blaming BUSH for. Because they have been, and they are currently doing exactly the same thing... and MORE. Bush never went into Libya and Obama is still in Afghanistan AND Iraq, AND he violated Pakistan's sovereignty... (not that I disagree at all there) but the Dems would have been screaming bloody murder if BUSH did it.

tomder55 · May 6, 2011, 02:13 AM

Originally Posted by excon

Hello again, tom:

The Constitutional distinction is a declaration of war. You can't have the benefits of a war without declaring it..

Therefore, there is no such distinction in the law as "enemy combatants. Without a declaration of war, there are only criminals. That would endow them with Constitutional rights. These criminals committed their crime in NY City. Seems to me, they should be tried in NY City.

Bush had a chance to follow the Constitution. He could have asked for a declaration of war. He would have gotten it. He chose not to. There's repercussions for doing that.

excon

There we fundamentally disagree. I think in both the war against jihadistan and Iraq ,the Constitutional requirements were met with the resolutions passed supporting the wars.

Authorization for Use of Military Force- Sept. 18, 2001

Iraqi War Resolution - Text of Iraq Resolution and Roll Call Vote Authorizing War In Iraq

To Smoothy's point;the President never addressed Congress ,nor asked for a resolution.

I wonder if Jimmy C is mourning the loss of a mass murdered he can no longer visit ?

excon · May 8, 2011, 08:25 AM

Hello again, Steve:

Let me reiterate.. Those who want to bring back torture, and there's a LOT of right wingers who want to do so, HATE America.

Let me say it once more with feeling, those who torture in my name HATE AMERICA. Why do right wingers HATE America?? Why?

excon

tomder55 · May 8, 2011, 10:45 AM

"It is permitted in time of grave danger to walk with the devil until you have crossed the bridge" (Old Bulgarian proverb quoted by FDR at Yalta )

smoothy · May 8, 2011, 11:35 AM

We LOVE America more than we love the terrorists that would be tortured. THAT is the difference between the right and the left.

The left believes the rights of terrorists are more important than the rights of Americans who would be harmed by them.

excon · May 8, 2011, 01:26 PM

Originally Posted by smoothy

We LOVE America more than we love the terrorists that would be tortured.

Hello again, smoothy:

Yeah... I understand.. In other words, you're willing to DESTROY America in order to SAVE it. I heard that argument in Vietnam.

excon

smoothy · May 8, 2011, 05:07 PM

The left is striving to do that (destroy America ) its part and parcel to Obamas agenda.. . by sucking up to the terrorists and screwing Americans.

We didn't give the Germans and the Japanese those rights... We didn't give the British or the French those rights either... we didn't give the Mexicans (in the past anyway) or the Indians those rights... and we've done pretty damn good so far.

Giving terrorists MORE rights than the average American has isn't going to do a single American any good.

excon · May 9, 2011, 08:49 AM

Hello again, smoothy:

If you don't understand what the USA is about, then you can't possibly preserve it. The reason Obama should have prosecuted Bush, Cheney, Yoo and ALL the torturers, is so that it NEVER raises its ugly head again... But, since he didn't do that, people like you will think torture is cool and certainly NOT against the law.

If what works is more important than who we are, why don't you opt for a full on police state? That works. Why don't we just shoot protesters?? That works. Why don't we just throw people in jail and NOT give them a trial? That works..

I guess I shouldn't be giving you ideas.. You say you love America more than the terrorists... But, if you respond to the terrorists by changing the fabric of America, then your hated terrorists WON. I know you don't understand that... But, when you HELP the terrorists WIN, you HATE America... Why do you hate my country so?

excon

speechlesstx · May 9, 2011, 09:13 AM

Obama and Holder won't even prosecute cases they've already won, why would he attempt to prosecute Bush and Co. knowing he'll lose?

excon · May 9, 2011, 09:20 AM

Originally Posted by speechlesstx

why would he attempt to prosecute Bush and Co. knowing he'll lose?

Hello again, Steve:

I don't speak for these people. If I did, I would have prosecuted the torturers and I wouldn't have lost. Would have been a slam dunk. Torture IS illegal, after all. People who PROMOTE torture HATE America.

Why do the righty's HATE America?

excon

speechlesstx · May 9, 2011, 09:30 AM

Originally Posted by excon

Torture IS illegal, after all. People who PROMOTE torture HATE America.

Who's promoting torture?

Why do the righty's HATE America?

Apparently we don't know we hate America, promote torture and are bigots. Thank God we have people like you and Pitts to set us straight.

smoothy · May 9, 2011, 09:32 AM

Why do lefties care so much about the non-existent rights foreign terrorists as supposed to have in their imaginations.

After all WE don't have any presumption of innocence on any highway or back road in the nation.

Yet the left wants to extend rights to foreign terrorists when none exist.

NeedKarma · May 9, 2011, 09:41 AM

Wow, the US seems like a nice place to live.

speechlesstx · May 9, 2011, 09:56 AM

I can't imagine living anywhere else.

NeedKarma · May 9, 2011, 10:02 AM

Originally Posted by speechlesstx

I can't imagine living anywhere else.

a) all you do is whine all day about how stupid the people are in your country
b) your government spies on you and you can't do anything about it Battle Brews Over FBI's Warrantless GPS Tracking | Threat Level | Wired.com

excon · May 9, 2011, 10:06 AM

Originally Posted by smoothy

Why do lefties care so much about the non-existent rights foreign terrorists

Hello again, smoothy:

It's not that I care about the terrorists.. It's that I that I LOVE my country. I've spoken about the "fabric" of our country, and how becoming torturers changes it... I suspect you haven't a clue about what that is. Maybe you missed civics that day.

excon

speechlesstx · May 9, 2011, 10:18 AM

Originally Posted by NeedKarma

a) all you do is whine all day about how stupid the people are in your country

No that's all YOU do. I take the time to go kick their a$$ in fantasy baseball, too.

excon · May 9, 2011, 10:18 AM

Originally Posted by speechlesstx

Who's promoting torture?

Hello again, Steve:

When you want to discuss REAL WORLD stuff, post me. But, I'm not going to get into that denial routine of yours.

In the REAL WORLD, when the Japanese waterboarded our soldiers it was torture... When WE do it, it's not... Thinking that OUR waterboarding is good, when their waterboarding was bad, is psychotic.

So, you can go on pretending that what we did wasn't torture, and I'll keep on telling you how loony your are.

excon