[Shiran]

Hey guys, I'm in a stressed out situation and need some advice and answers. It's bit of a bizarre story, so please bare with me. I'm going to try to make the story short as possible.

I had around 10K cash (inside a lunch bag locked with a padlock via zippers) in a school locker which got cut off by one of the school administrators (because I didn't rent it for that semester). After seeing my lock was no longer there, I went to ask if my locker was cut off by the school, they denied it and told me to report it to the security department as theft. I did that, except I mentioned I had 2K in cash along with my other belongings. They told me to report it to the police and bring back a report number, but I didn't do that as I had no hopes of getting the money back and didn't want the police to "raise a red flag" against me.

The next week I got a call from the security saying they have my stuff. I went in and saw all my belongings there (including the lunch bag still with the padlock intact)... and signed a paper confirming I've received all my items. When I went upstairs to open up the padlock and check for my money, there was nothing in there. I went back to talk with the security supervisor, and he told me it must have been stolen. I went home and noticed that my external drive and two cellular phones which was in the locker was accessed during the week it was supposedly stolen. Note that there was nothing incriminating inside the external drive nor the cellular phones. I did, however, keep a couple of encrypted files in the external drive. I went back the next day to talk with the supervisor, and he admitted accessing the external drive "to know who it belongs to".. and "to check if the phones worked"... I found all this to be suspicious.

At this point, I went to talk with a police officer regarding the locker theft and how I was suspicious against the security department. I did mention I had around 10K and asked how the investigation would proceed if I was to file the report. He said the chances of recovering the money was slim, but the person who might have stolen the money would be arrested and charged with theft over. He also mentioned of how I could be charged with "public mischief" if I was making the whole thing up just to get 10K. And that they may require proof of how I obtained the money, etc. I told the officer I do not have any proof for all the money, and most of the money was from "buying and selling cell phones". At this point, I had a second thought about filing a report and said "I'll think about it" and left the police station. The officer did ask for my identification and I complied. I did not show him any ID but gave him my name, address and birth date.

The only reason I am wanting to file a report now is because I highly suspect the security department of taking my money. Otherwise I would just take all this as a hard lesson learned and move on with my life. I'm sure some of you might be thinking I was hiding some drug money, etc. but this isn't the case. I have no involvement with drugs and never had any trouble with the law relating to drugs.

My question is if I was to file the police report, am I going to be hassled by the police of where I obtained the money? What if I have no proof for all the money? Will there be an investigation against me? Is it possible the security department in my school is "holding on to the money" until I report it to the police? Is there any chance I could get my money back without showing any proof of where I got it? Will the police bother my parents or friends about this case (as I haven't told anyone about this)?

[ScottGem]

Yes! Almost no one keeps that amount of cash around unless there are some shady dealing going on.

[Fr_Chuck]

Most likely unless a security guard stole the money ( very likely) it was already given to the police who alreay down loaded everything from any file and the police are already investigating you.

No one has 10,000 in a school locker unless they are doing illegal activities. Ever here of a bank, but next you stated you had not rented that locker this year, so you were keeping the money in a locker that was not actually yours, so you had no right to even store things there.

You will also have to prove you had all the items in the police report, but now, they have proof that you claimed you did, when you talked to the school and talked to the police officer, so everyone you talked to, is not a witness against you if they find other issues with your business dealings

[Shiran]

ScottGem: I didn't create this thread to get a debate on whether the money I kept in the locker was from illegal activities or not. I have my reasons for wanting to keep it there (temporarily) and I don't want to get into discussing that here.

Fr_Chuck: I doubt a security guard or the school administrator would have actually stole the money. What I think happened was the security somehow manage to open up the lunch bag, saw the money and turned it in over to the police? Is it legal for the police to take my money out of suspicion? If I file a police report, would they want to investigate for me or against me? What are the chances I could get all or some of my money back (suppose the police did take my money, or the security at my school is "holding on to it")?

You also mentioned I'm already being investigated against because I talked with a police officer... by what means could they be investigating?

[ScottGem]

First, when you post a question on a site like this you open yourself to any comments that are pertinent to your question. Having said that, I don't see any of your responses debating where the money came from. What we have been telling you is how law enforcement is going to think about having so much cash. I don't care where the cash came from, that IS your business. But if the police became aware of anyone stashing such a large amount of cash anywhere there suspicions will be aroused.

Yes it is legal for the police to confiscate the money until an investigation has been made. As long as the police did not break the law to do so. You stated you didn't pay the rent but continued to use it. Therefore the school was within their rights to open it and examine the contents. They were then under an obligation to turn over such a large sum to police.

It is highly likely that the police would investigate anyone having such a large sum of cash for the reason we have stated.

So, the bottom line is, if you can show the money was obtained legally, then file a police report and be prepared to explain the money. If the police have it, then they will investigate your reasons and, if they are valid, return the money. If you don't file a report because you can't justify the money, and the police already have it, they will be investigating you anyway.

[excon]

Hello S:

If you want your money back, you need to file a police report, or forget about it. Yes, the cops will think you did something wrong... But, the cops think EVERYBODY is doing something wrong... So, to PROTECT yourself, I'd hire an attorney.

excon

[Shiran]

ScottGem:
Thanks for responding. I can understand that it is legal for the police to confiscate the money "until an investigation has been made". But if they find no evidence of criminal activity through their investigation, would I be entitled to get my money back?

And in the worst case scenario, they somehow believe the money I kept was proceeds of crime, would I get raided? This is my worst fear at the moment. I live with a low-income family and my whole life will be turned upside down. I don't exactly understand what it takes for the police to charge someone with "possession of proceeds of crime" as it lacks any form of evidence. Is having a large amount of cash hidden in a school locker good enough for them to get a search warrant and knock on my door?

Also, is there any negative effects against me for talking to the security supervisor and the police officer claiming I had such large amount of cash in the locker? I know it may have triggered an investigation, but could they be used as a witness against me if any criminal charges are laid?

Excon:
What would be the benefits of hiring a lawyer at this time? I am nearly broke right now and if the best advice I'm going to get from a lawyer is to keep my mouth shut to the police, then it will be a good waste of money.

[ScottGem]

ScottGem:
Thanks for responding. I can understand that it is legal for the police to confiscate the money "until an investigation has been made". But if they find no evidence of criminal activity through their investigation, would I be entitled to get my money back?

Yes, But then the IRS will get involved.

And in the worst case scenario, they somehow believe the money I kept was proceeds of crime, would I get raided? This is my worst fear at the moment. I live with a low-income family and my whole life will be turned upside down. I don't exactly understand what it takes for the police to charge someone with "possession of proceeds of crime" as it lacks any form of evidence. Is having a large amount of cash hidden in a school locker good enough for them to get a search warrant and knock on my door?

Yes, this may be enough for the police to obtain a search warrant for your living quarters. Yes, they do need proof that the money is actually the proceeds of a crime to prosecute. But they need much less to investigate. So they can disrupt your life to do their investigation.

Also, is there any negative effects against me for talking to the security supervisor and the police officer claiming I had such large amount of cash in the locker? I know it may have triggered an investigation, but could they be used as a witness against me if any criminal charges are laid?

They can only testify to what they witnessed.

[Fr_Chuck]

You will have to prove it is your money, which may include proving where it came from. ** this is normal

The fact it was not in a locker you were using properly at the time, ** I think you said you had not rented it that year, and that it was done in a way that was not normal, it is going to be hard to prove it is your money

[excon]

What would be the benefits of hiring a lawyer at this time? I am nearly broke right now and if the best advice I'm going to get from a lawyer is to keep my mouth shut to the police, then it will be a good waste of money.

Hello again, S:

Well, if the cops only want to talk to you and do NOTHING else, then you don't need a lawyer.. But, I'll bet they do MORE.. Plus, you want you money back, don't you? You ain't going to get it yourself.

excon

[grammadidi]

In Ontario, Canada you have the ability to receive 30 minutes free legal counsel from many lawyers. If I were you, I would contact the Lawyer's Referral Service and have them refer you to a lawyer for a free 30 minute consulation. You can find information about the service here: Lawyer Referral Service

Good luck...

Didi

[Shiran]

Yes, But then the IRS will get involved.

Will I still have to provide proof of where every penny came from in order to get my money back?
And I'm still in doubt whether it was the police who confiscated the cash or not. When I asked the security supervisor, he denied taking it nor turning it over to the police. Is it within their rights to provide me with false information? If I go to the police station and ask if my money was confiscated for an investigation, will I get a truthful answer?

Yes, this may be enough for the police to obtain a search warrant for your living quarters. Yes, they do need proof that the money is actually the proceeds of a crime to prosecute. But they need much less to investigate. So they can disrupt your life to do their investigation.

Are you sure having large amount of cash stored in a unrented school locker IS enough for them to get a search warrant ? Don't they need evidence... or "probable cause"?

Well, if the cops only want to talk to you and do NOTHING else, then you don't need a lawyer.. But, I'll bet they do MORE..

What more could they do besides wanting to talk with me?

Plus, you want you money back, don't you? You ain't gonna get it yourself.

I do want my money but I have no proof for every penny that was in the locker... how is hiring a lawyer going to help?

In Ontario, Canada you have the ability to receive 30 minutes free legal counsel from many lawyers.

I've e-mailed a criminal defense lawyer previously but he is wanting to charge $500/hr just to book a meeting. Do lawyers offer free consultation for those who are already charged with a crime or is it also possible for my situation?

[excon]

I do want my money but I have no proof for every penny that was in the locker... how is hiring a lawyer going to help?

Hello again, S:

YOU don't have to prove anything, and those aren't the right questions to ask. You're asking questions a GUILTY person would ask. A fellow who got RIPPED off by the cops or whoever would scream bloody murder to ANYBODY who would listen to him.. He would NOT be hesitant to REPORT it.

In the very FIRST instance, having CASH is NOT illegal. You are acting as though it IS. IF you earned it as you say, the WORST you can be guilty of is operating without a license and not paying some taxes. NONE of that would cause them to confiscate your money, or put you in jail.

Now, that doesn't mean they don't THINK you're guilty of some crime. I'm sure they DO. But, in my country (and yours too), THINKING it ain't enough. It ain't enough to get a search warrant, and it ain't enough to seize the money. If you ACTED like a victim instead of a perp, you'd have a shot at getting your money back, and you may convince the cops that you DIDN'T do anything.

So, at this point you are right. You DON'T need advice. You NEED somebody to intercede on your behalf with the cops so that you can (1) get your money back and (2) avoid being hassled. That's what a lawyer will do.

excon

[grammadidi]

Shiran, Forget the criminal lawyer that you emailed. He's only after your money too! :) Call that Legal Referral place. BE HONEST above all else. You don't have to tell us everything but you should tell the lawyer everythinng. A lot of good lawyers will give you a free 1/2 hour consultation to discuss your case and tell you whether they think they can help you and how much it will cost. You CAN talk to a few of them to make a well informed decision. While the Lawyer Referral Service will give you a name and number it doesn't stop you from calling a lawyer and asking if they can give you a free 30 minute consultation. Visit with 2 or 3 of them and make a decision on your next course of action based upon what they say. Otherwise, I think you should just kiss your money goodbye and try to learn something from the experience. If you did nothing illegal and your money was stolen then in my opinion you should pursue it, even if things get a little tense for you. I hope you let us know what you decide and the outcome.

Good luck!

Didi

[Shiran]

So, at this point you are right. You DON'T need advice. You NEED somebody to intercede on your behalf with the cops so that you can (1) get your money back and (2) avoid being hassled. That's what a lawyer will do.

You CAN talk to a few of them to make a well informed decision. While the Lawyer Referral Service will give you a name and number it doesn't stop you from calling a lawyer and asking if they can give you a free 30 minute consultation. Visit with 2 or 3 of them and make a decision on your next course of action based upon what they say.

I appreciate all of your advices. I'm in the process of booking a free consultation with a lawyer sometime this week. I will keep this thread updated on whatever happens in the future regarding this matter.

I wanted to ask one last question though. Will the conversation I had with the police officer regarding the locker theft be included in a "police background check" against me in the future?

[excon]

I wanted to ask one last question though. Will the conversation I had with the police officer regarding the locker theft be included in a "police background check" against me in the future?

Hello again, S:

Boy, what a loaded question... The direct answer, is NO.

Apparently, though, you told him something INCRIMINATING, or you wouldn't be worried about him blabbing it to potential employers... But, if it was BAD, and it was, why aren't you worried that the cop will use it in the PRESENT investigation? That would be my FIRST concern...

Uhhhh, what did you tell him??

excon

[Shiran]

Boy, what a loaded question..... The direct answer, is NO.

Apparently, though, you told him something INCRIMINATING, or you wouldn't be worried about him blabbing it to potential employers... But, if it was BAD, and it was, why aren't you worried that the cop will use it in the PRESENT investigation? That would be my FIRST concern...

Uhhhh, what did you tell him???

I didn't say anything incriminating... everything I told him is in my original post. He did most of the talking but I was wondering if having told him I kept a large amount of cash hidden in a school locker could somehow be used against me? Is he required to post such allegation on a police background check? I'm not asking this question in regards to employers wanting to do background check on me, but in case the police will want to do one in the future.

[excon]

I'm not asking this question in regards to employers wanting to do background check on me, but in case the police will want to do one in the future.

Hello again, S:

Let's get our terminology straight. You're not asking about a background check. You're asking whether the police file is COMPLETE (or will be) and whether it EVER closes.

Here's the answer. It IS complete and/or soon will be, and it'll NEVER close. That means this file will be available for ANY cop to read, ANYWHERE, and at ANY time in the future.

I'd STILL be more concerned about the PRESENT problem, rather than about some future potential problem you may have... I just don't know why you're looking at that stuff.

excon

[grammadidi]

Are these questions in case of an immigration hearing in the future? If so, the police background check primarily entails checking to see if you have a criminal record or if you have been arrested for something. In all honesty a police officer can have notes (on or off computer) about your conversations with him/her. They can, and probably did, talk about your conversation with other police officers. They could possibly be keeping an eye on you to see if you are in the possession of or selling stolen goods. Bottom line is, if you are doing nothing illegal and have not been arrested the worse that could happen is they could question or watch you. That would not come up in a police check UNLESS they arrested you and probably not unless they charged you.

It sounds like you have a special situation, so you really do need expert advice from within your own area. I know a lot of the laws in Ontario as my ex-brother-in-law is a Metro Toronto police officer and I lived in Ontario for over 50 years (Toronto and district). I did take a one year general law course, too, but that was many years ago and some things change.

Please do let us know what happens when you speak with the lawyer(s).

Hugs, Didi

[grammadidi]

Oh, and regarding excon's last post... yes, it is important to differentiate between a criminal check and a police background check (records search). A police record is exactly that... a record that the police keep to show any involvement that you have had with them. So, if you are questioned by the police, if you are taken to the hospital by the police literally if you have had ANY involvement with the police. Then there is a record of it. This will NOT show up on a criminal record search but will show up on what a lot of us call a "police check".

Also note that you can usually go to a police staton and request a copy of your police record. It may cost a few dollars and sometimes you will have to be applying for a job that insists upon one (ie: driving a schoolbus). If you have lived in more than one area you would have to apply separately in each area.

Hope this clarifies things a bit.

Didi