[Single White Female]

I had no hot water, so I went to a major home improvement store (HIS) to see how I could check the thermostat. Upon the advice of the sales clerk, I bought a hot water heater (HWH) as well as the professional installation service. It was installed on Thursday of last week, and when I got home from work later that evening, around 8:30ish, there was still no hot water. So I called HIS and they told me to call the plumbing company (PC) that installed it. I call the PC and explain the situation, and they said "it's probably because of the Electric Company's (EC) box that's on the wall above the HWH, call EC and they will come right out and take care of it." I called EC and they checked the box, and
The box was fine. By this time it was really late, after 10 PM. I leave a message on the PC'S voice mail. The next morning (Friday), I noticed that the copper piping to the HWH was leaking.. I called the PC again and tell them that the EC said their box was fine. I also told them I noticed that the pipes were leaking. They said "than it must be an electrical problem, you need to call a electrician, we are not licensed to do that. So I ask them, if the problem was electric, does that mean I didn't even need a water heater? They said, "well maybe, but it was pretty old, it would have needed to be replaced soon anyway". "As far as the leak goes, our plumber is at another job now, an emergency, and he won't be able to get to you until tomorrow afternoon, he'll call you to let you know when, but for now shut the valve off to stop the leak." I said won't that shut off the water supply to the house completely, and she said she didn't know. I couldn't even get the valve to turn, in any direction, so I had to shut the main valve off on the side of the house. On Sat morning I was listening to my voice mail, there was a message from the lady at the PC left at around 9:00 PM the night before (Friday) stating the plumber would be over Saturday btw 12-2. The plumber never came over or even called. I called the HIS, since the contract was them, and they told me that's just the way it goes sometimes. I asked "doesn't the plumber check the HWH or do some kind of test to make sure the problem is
With the HWH before they remove it ?" They said "No that was an electricians job, and we do not contract with electricians, you'll have to call one privately."

My first question is: Is it possible that I can disconnect the timer from the water heater safely if I am given the proper directions?

If so, I would be very thankful for any help that can be offered here.

My second question is this: I feel like I was taken for a ride... was the above situation handled properly by the HIS? If the problem all along was the timer, I am entitled to a refund of some sort?

Thanks in advance...

I need a hot shower... this cold shower stuff sucks!

[letmetellu]

You like many others bought a water heater from a HIS to save a little money. The HIS is in the business of selling water heaters they could care less as to what your problem might be that you are interested in buying one. So I don't see that you have any gripe with the HIS. It is the same with the PC that the HIS called for you or suggested that you call, They were called to install a water heater that you had already purchased from the HIS so they did not get a chance to sell you one themselves and therefore no chance to make any profit on the sale. They may have discovered what the problem was that your water was not hot but that is not what they were hired to do, so they did do what they were hired to do, and that is to install a water heater. Now in comes the EC to check out the electric system that belongs to them and that they are responsible for, so they were not obligated to check out your part of the electric system. So they did do their job correctly. Now back to the PC and the water leak that you found, granted they should have given you better service than they did but I can understand that if they had an emergency job, possibly from one of their old customers, they are going to take care of them first before they will you because once they are finished with your job they will never see you again because the next time you need something you will go to the HIS to purchase it.
So I can't see that the HIS owes you anything, The EC did their job in a speedy manner, and the only obligation that the PC has to you is to make sure that when he is finished the job is done correctly and there are no more leaks but I do feel like he owes you a real heart felt apology. But that sure does not take the place a good long hot shower.

[labman]

You kind of suddenly jumped to the timer. Are you saying there is a timer that isn't letting power get to the tank? If so, you should be able to safely bypass it until you can get a permanent fix. As long as you carefully shut the breaker off, you can't hurt anything working on the wiring. The wiring to a hot water heater usually has a black, white, and bare wire. The black and white are both hot. What you can do is to connect both the incoming black wire and the outgoing one to the same screw at the timer. If the white wire runs through it, do the same with them. If you mess anything up, the breaker should turn itself right back off when you turn it on. If my directions don't sound like your timer, post back before doing anything.

In the electrical sticky, tkrussel warns about listening to the advice of any retail store employee. I doubt you will get anything from anybody out of this except the plumber coming back to fix the leak.

Ok and be careful not to let the tank heat or cool with both the inlet shut off and all the hot water taps closed. When you shut the water off to the tank, open a hot water tap. Let the tank fill up before turning the power on.

[Single White Female]

Labman... Thanks a million for your help. The reason I think the timer is the problem is because the plumbing company immediately knew it was an electrical problem. When the electric company cleared their equipment, they told me it had to be the timer. I have a couple questions about your directions:
The wiring to a hot water heater usually has a black, white, and bare wire. The black and white are both hot. What you can do is to connect both the incoming black wire and the outgoing one to the same screw at the timer. I see all three of those wires. The incoming bare wire and white wire are connected to the timer and the black wire is capped off with another red wire. Then red wire appears to be coming from the Electric Company's box. There are three other red wires coming from the electrical box that are also connected to the timer. Then there appears to be a white, black and bare wire coming in from the back of the timer box. Those are all connected to the timer. Questions:

1. Do I take the black wire that is capped off and attach it to the same screw that the other black wire is attached to?

2. There is also a red wire attached to that same screw, do I leave that there when attaching the black wire?

3. What do you mean here? "If the white wire runs through it, do the same with them." If the white wire runs through the timer box? There are two white wires, one coming in from the tank and one coming in from back of the timer and they both attach to the timer in different spots. Do I need to do anything with these?

4. What do you mean by this: be careful not to let the tank heat or cool with both the inlet shut off and all the hot water taps closed. What or where is the inlet and do I have to physically shut it off or turn it on?When you shut the water off to the tank, Where do I shut off the water to the tank and do I need to do that before I start disconnecting the timer? open a hot water tap. Let the tank fill up before turning the power on The tank should be full at this time, do I need to empty it or something? Nothing has been done since the plumber left?

Thanks again for your help!! You have no idea how much this means to me!

[tkrussell]

If you can follow Labmans advice, great. But your timer wiring sounds like special wiring for time of day billing for the water heater, and there is no way of anyone here knowing exactly what all the red wires are for.

Basically, only two hot wires are needed to make an electric water heater work. The voltage is 240 volts, and needs to be done exactly correct.

My advice is to call in an electrician, that you can trust, and have this electric wiring checked and correctly connected to the heater.

The electrician will be able to check to be sure there is the proper voltage getting to the heater to make it work. Be sure he makes any repairs to the timer and wiring before he leaves. Be sure he writes up a work ticket with a report of exactly what he found wrong and the corrective measures he had to make. Keep this along with a copy of his invoice.

Then keep on calling this HIS to get them to send their plumber to repair the leak, or call in another plumber to get it fixed, and keep his written report and invoice.

Then contact your states Board of Consumer Protection or Professional Licensing Dept.with all of this info to let then know how you wre treated, and the fact that the store contracted with you to replace an electric water heater, did not advice you UPFRONT to have an electrician involved, and that the plumber did the electrical connection initially. and left you with an electric water heater that was not working properly.

The plumber should know how to test the water heater when he was done to determine if it was working.

Then contact this HIS with this information to seek some sort of reimbersement. Someone needs to stay on these "Home Centers" to get proper advice and professional service. They are acting as general contractors , and along with the bad advice they spew, too many home owners and DIY'ers are being misled and serviced poorly, and just laying down and taking it.

As a reputable contractor, I provide professional service, and give good advice, and if there is something that needs to be corrected, it is taken care of promptly, and held to this ethic by a state professional board that issues my license.

And none of us contractors do the billions of gross sales and earn the millions of dollars in bonuses that these "home centers" do.

So, be careful with that timer wiring, best to call in a pro to have it looked at and corrected, and hold the store you purchased the product AND service to some level of responsibility.

[labman]

''so I had to shut the main valve off on the side of the house.'' Once you shut that valve off, water can't get in or out of the tank. Of course, if it won't heat, there isn't going to be any problem with expansion and contraction. You don't need to empty the tank, but will lose some water out of it with the water shut off and a hot water tap. I guess as long as you have the leak, you don't have the problem of heating water having no place to expand to either.

It is Friday. Perhaps the best thing is to have a electrician come and find the problem. Bypassing the timer as I tried to explain, won't give you hot water if it was OK as the EC said. It may also violate your agreement with the EC.

I really have to wonder about the plumber, leaving a leak and not getting back in a week to fix it. Not everybody with a wrench and a torch is a plumber.

[labman]

Considering how badly you have been let down by those people you paid for service, maybe it is time for you to take charge and do more yourself. You now have AMHD for advice. The advice here, like service varies. The more I think about it, the less I like my suggestion of bypassing the timer. However, if you give them time, others will point out questionable advice here. Before some better people joined, I was answering more DIY questions. I often leave unanswered questions go now, hoping somebody will give a better answer than I can. Sometimes I see a worse one. You need some tools. I have some standard advice on that.

To do simple checks like this you do need some tools. A test light, a meter, or a voltage detector might be the best place to start with. I came across the niftiest gadget for trouble shooting, a voltage detector. They work through the insulation of wires. There are several brands. I have a GB Instruments GVD-505A, less than $15 at Home Depot. Touch it to a hot wire, and the end glows red. Find the doodad that lights it on one side, and not the other, and you have the culprit. You do not have to open up housings and expose electrical contacts. You are looking at where your hand is, not where the meter is. Most people are capable of doing repairs and will get it going and not get hurt if they use a little sense. The voltage detector makes it even easier.

With your luck with HIS, you might try a real hardware, an Ace, True Value, etc. The voltage detectors work great with the common plastic covered electrical wiring, Non Metallic also known by the trademark Romex. Touch a length of it or a power cord with the tip of it, and it glows red if it is hot. It never hurts to check it on something that you know is hot first. You could quickly see if it is the timer, or another problem. I would think almost anybody could hook up a hot water heater, but some people manage to mess up simple tasks.

[Single White Female]

I only had the main water valve shut off for a few hours. The leak at the HWH is very small, not enough for me to go with out any water.

The Electric Company is who told me the timer was the problem. They said if it was disconnected that would solve the problem.

I am excellent at following directions. Just need a shower, and I'm too broke to go to a hotel or pay an electrician $150 to come over. So if you would be so kind to continue with my lesson, I would be much obliged.

I could not find anyone to look at the heater prior to going to the HIS. Appliance repair man said call the plumber the plumber said call the electrician, the electrician said call the plumber. That is why I ended up at the HIS.

As to why I went to the HIS instead of calling a local company, I could not find anyone to look at the HWH. Appliance repair man said call the plumber the plumber said call the electrician, the electrician said call the plumber.

[labman]

Without the timer, hot water tank wiring is fairly simple, just 2 hot wires and a ground going to the thermostat. You need to identify all the wires feeding the timer and shut off their breakers. That is one place the voltage detector I suggested is a lifesaver. Professional electricians have better ones and the older ones always check for voltage before touching any wires. The ones that don't check, don't get to be older electricians.

Once you are sure the infernal thing is completely dead, identify the large cable feeding the HWH. It should be marked 10-2 with ground or maybe 8-2. It will have 2 sections, one from the breaker box, and one running to the HWH. Connect the blacks to each other and the whites to each other, using one set of screws as I suggested, or wire nuts. Once the connections are made, turn the breaker that feeds the heavy wire. It will be a double one usually near the top marked 30 amps or something. The water should begin to heat.