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BECullum · Feb 23, 2011, 12:11 PM

I have a basement toilet that is too close to my new Whirlpool tub that I am installing. Can I build a false floor for the toilet and move it over 6 inches to accommodate the new tub? The drain for the toilet is incased in the basement concrete so I wanted to attach to the drain and move it over the few inches needed then attach to the toilet. Does this violate code? Thanks for any advice.

ballengerb1 · Feb 23, 2011, 03:03 PM

Well you could but it would mean raising the toilet about 7" and build a plateform. Can't comment on code not knowing where you live and what code they follow. Call your local building inspector for a local answer. You should be OK

BECullum · Feb 23, 2011, 03:14 PM

I live in Gretna Nebraska. I understand that I would have to raise the toilet, I just want to be able to sell the home if we ever move. Thanks for the info.

massplumber2008 · Feb 23, 2011, 03:17 PM

Hi Becullum...

You CANNOT do what you propose here. If you move the pipe above the floor and build a platform you will be negating the toilet VENT and that is definitely illegal.

Relocate the toilet under the floor... fastest and easier than you might think! You could always hire a guy from a local temporary agency to break up and patch the floor... ;)

Mark

ballengerb1 · Feb 23, 2011, 03:17 PM

Code or not, this will decrease the value of your home if you sell it with a raised platform. If you want it done in a manner which will not decrease your value get 3 bids from plumbers who can jack hammer part of the floor and move the pipe. I am thinking around $600

pghplumber · Feb 23, 2011, 05:33 PM

Massplumber and ballengerb are both correct that digging up the concrete and moving the toilet is the best way to do it. Depending on the a variety of factors, it would be unfair to you to quote a price over the internet. Putting a toilet on a raised platform is usually ugly, awkward to use and typically lacks stability. If it is a last resort, offsetting the toilet with a few 90 or 45 degree bends will have no effect on the performance of the toilet when relating to venting. It's just not in the top 10 first choices to solve the issue, dig up the pipe and have it done right.

massplumber2008 · Feb 24, 2011, 07:26 AM

Hi PGH...

You said, "offsetting the toilet with a few 90 or 45 degree bends will have no effect on the performance of the toilet when relating to venting".

To tell someone that adding a FEW 90s is OK in this case is incorrect.

At a minimum, if we want to be literal here, adding 2-90s would require a cleanout to be installed (over 135 degrees)... right? Never mind that 3-90s (2 above ground and 1 underground) so close to each other might lead to less of a contribution from the toilet vent and may lead to a poorer flush and in my opinion, increase the chances of clogging the toilet.

I'll present that code would allow up to a 24" tailpiece from out of the toilet elbow to the toilet flange, but it certainly didn't have multiple 90s in the plan when the code was written.

Could Becullum use 2- 45s to offset the toilet? Well sure, that would work just fine if there was enough vertical room to make the offset and that would NOT be an issue with venting so I think that was a positive contribution to the question, for sure!

Thanks...

Mark

BECullum · Feb 24, 2011, 08:43 AM

I have called a plumber to come out this weekend to take a look at it, give me a quote, and make sure it is done to code. Thanks for all your information, I think getting someone to do it right the first time is the best option.

massplumber2008 · Feb 24, 2011, 10:06 AM

Great solution here, BECullum.

Thanks for the update!

Mark

pghplumber · Feb 24, 2011, 02:38 PM

Toilet vents don't contribute to the performance of the toilet as much as you may believe. It is after the flush occurs that venting is the most important.The vent is to allow the water that passes to have air behind it to flow freely, even though the water follows the flow line after flushing and spirals the wall of the pipe when traveling vertically. There is more than enough room for air above the flow line and at center of the vertical pipe to not effect toilet performance. More importantly the vent allows for a balance of atmospheric pressure AFTER the flush so that a trap seal can be recreated by the fill valve. Whether there are two 90's or eight 90's below the flange of a toilet doesn't effect the toilets performance, the venting action or flow downstream as long as there is fall. You are correct that most areas require a clean out when there is a change of direction in the underground piping of 45 degrees or more to the vertical. A toilet without a vent may double flush if the pipes are restricted and the water volume is large. So there is really nothing wrong with a few 90 or 45 degree bends, mechanically, practically or by any codes (as long as there is a clean out) it is just a matter of opinion.

pghplumber · Feb 24, 2011, 02:42 PM

I only mention this because we do not know what the plumber at BECallum's house will need to do to get the toilet where it needs to be.It would be unfair to the unsuspecting plumber if the customer used this forum's information to wrongly manipulate the situation and create controversy in his installation where there should be none.

pghplumber · Feb 24, 2011, 02:51 PM

What is a toilet tailpiece? Between the toilet opening and flange? What situation would a toilet sit anywhere but directly on the flange?

mygirlsdad77 · Feb 24, 2011, 09:35 PM

I understand the toilet tailpiece to be the portion of pipe between the closet flange and the closet bend. In my area, we only install one ninety (closet bend) between the closet flange and the vent. Code is a little unclear on that, but code is only an ordinance providing minimum requirements and standards. I like to think of using only one bend between closet flange and vent just good plumbing practice. A little common sense along with code makes for good plumbing practice in my opinion. Good back and forth here guys, keep up the good work.

BECullum, as all have stated above, the true correct way to do this is the way you have chosen. Have the floor opened up and pipe it correctly underground. Good luck on your project and hope all goes smoothly for you.

Have a good night all.

massplumber2008 · Feb 25, 2011, 04:55 AM

Nice explanation MGD... ;)

To PGH I'm going to say that I completely disagree with your breakdown of venting when it comes to this matter...

A vent needs to roll above the center line of the horizontal drain pipe and by jumping up above the floor and running the pipe with 2 additional 90s to achieve the 6" offset (which would actually need a 90 and a street 90) you have created another horizontal drain line and without adding a vent (or cleanout) have broken code. In my opinion, it is that simple.

As MGD said, it is just good plumbing practice to use a 90 into a closet flange (i.e. the tailpiece).

I will not continue to go back and forth over this, OK? You have presented your thoughts and I have presented mine. The only thing that matters to me is that BECullum has taken the next best step here and hired a plumber to do this correctly.

Good day all!

Mark

pghplumber · Feb 25, 2011, 04:20 PM

I will not go back and forth and just resign myself to the fact that if you are upset and will not listen to reason. My breakdown was factual and exact. Massplumber, you usually have very good advice, but what you propose, by IPC, UPC or local codes would virtually remove methods of stack venting and main line venting for floor drains and water closets from plumbing design. I, of course, will no longer respond to this thread.