[speechlesstx]

Quoting speechlesstx:
The church age ended and I missed it? And what's this about May 22

Are these the questions you're waiting for me to address ?

Since that was what you were referring to on this thread that would be a start.

[speechlesstx]

Yeah Tessy my friend, the Tribulation wasn't nearly as bad as I'd heard it would be. Has the anti-Christ stepped into the temple yet?

[HeadStrongBoy]

Quoting classyT:
"You told me until I understood your point you wouldn't go further. So I dropped it. I am NOT side steppin ya."

I've repeated my quotes below to show HOW they relate to "ALL about how salvation works."
...First I will give verses that show that our human faith is work.1 Thessalonians 1:3 says "Remembering without ceasing your work of faith and labor of love..."
2 Thessalonians 1:11 says "... the good pleasure of [his] goodness and the work of faith with power."
James 2:20 says "... faith without works is dead."
James 2:26 says "... So faith without works is dead also."
James 2:18 says "Yea a man may say Thou hast faith, and I have works. Shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew the my faith by my works."

All those references indicate to me absolutely clearly that faith is work by the Bible's own DEFINITION. In my opinion there can be NO DEBATE ON THIS POINT.


I'm not giving in on this point ! FAITH IS WORK. AS SUCH IT CAN MAKE NO CONTRIBUTION TO MY BECOMING SAVED. Do you see that or not ?

[HeadStrongBoy]

Quoting speechlesstx:
"Since that was what you were referring to on this thread that would be a start."

I'd like to give you all the information about those two subjects I can. The problem is that I also am only a student, and I'm following a teacher who has quite a bit more knowledge than I do. To make it easy on myself, I can refer you to Mr. Harold Camping's publications, all of which are available FREE, postpaid. One book is entiltled "THE END OF THE CHURCH AGE AND AFTER." Another is called "WE ARE ALMOST THERE."

[speechlesstx]

HSB, we're all still students. But if you want to make the assertion that the church age has ended you should be better prepared than to refer us to some other dude's writings... especially while challenging us to prove things via scripture. Don't you think?

[dwashbur]

I answered all of these some time ago and you dodged, which shows how much you're actually listening to any view other than your own.

Quoting classyT:
"You told me until I understood your point you wouldn't go further. So I dropped it. I am NOT side steppin ya."

I've repeated my quotes below to show HOW they relate to "ALL about how salvation works."
...First I will give verses that show that our human faith is work.1 Thessalonians 1:3 says "Remembering without ceasing your work of faith and labor of love..."
2 Thessalonians 1:11 says "...the good pleasure of [his] goodness and the work of faith with power."
James 2:20 says "...faith without works is dead."
James 2:26 says "...So faith without works is dead also."
James 2:18 says "Yea a man may say Thou hast faith, and I have works. Shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew the my faith by my works."

All those references indicate to me absolutely clearly that faith is work by the Bible's own DEFINITION. In my opinion there can be NO DEBATE ON THIS POINT.


I'm not giving in on this point ! FAITH IS WORK. AS SUCH IT CAN MAKE NO CONTRIBUTION TO MY BECOMING SAVED. Do you see that or not ?

[HeadStrongBoy]

Quoting speechlesstx:
"especially while challenging us"

What is this "US" ? If you, personally, feel challenged how is that my responsibility ? I've given you information that will answer your questions. If that is not exactly the form you would have preferred, too bad.

[HeadStrongBoy]

Quoting dwashbur:
"I answered all of these some time ago."

I did not post them (originally or otherwise) just for you personally. You are free to answer them or not. Likewise, I am free to deal with your response or not.

[speechlesstx]

What is this "US" ?

"but very little serious Bible research and effort to answer valid points of view, other than the ones held by CONSENSUS."

Sounds like a challenge to "us" to me, but you just keep "dancing around" instead of answering anything. And if you can't see the irony of offering us someone else's opinion while criticizing the "consensus" then you need a new hobby.

[HeadStrongBoy]

Quoting speechlesstx

criticizing the "consensus" then you need a new hobby

My aim is to teach what I have learned from the Bible, and from other teachers of the Bible. Others who show interest in my views are welcome to share my knowledge.

I repeat, The Church Age ended in 1988. At the same time The Great Tribulation began, and Satan was officially installed by God in all the churches on Earth as the de-facto ruler. The tribulation is scheduled to last 23 years. Then The Day of Judgment will begin. 153 days later the whole creation will be annihilated by fire. As of this moment there is still time to plead with God for mercy (salvation).

[Fr_Chuck]

I can only laugh that people are caught up in these cults, but then the bigger the lie, the easier it is often for people to accept.

Challenge is not the word I would use, amuse, even humor since it is not possible for me to even take such silly and completely non Christian teachings serious.

[450donn]

Quoting speechlesstx

I repeat, The Church Age ended in 1988. At the same time The Great Tribulation began, and Satan was officially installed by God in all the churches on Earth as the de-facto ruler. The tribulation is scheduled to last 23 years. Then The Day of Judgment will begin. 153 days later the whole creation will be annihilated by fire. As of this moment there is still time to plead with God for mercy (salvation).

WOW that is a stretch. Please quote chapter and verse for your statements here.

[HeadStrongBoy]

Dwashbur:

I answered all of these some time ago and you dodged

No you DID NOT!! In fact you're the one who dodged!

What you did offer was mere ridicule. You did not address the individual Bible references POINT BY POINT.

[HeadStrongBoy]

450donn

WOW that is a stretch. Please quote chapter and verse for your statements here.

You are correct, it is quite a stretch. And obviously the Bible does not spell any of this out verbatim. Using your kind of simple-minded logic, therefore, I cannot just like that, INSTANTLY give you all the references from the Bible that tend to SUPPORT the conclusions I've declared.

Rather the whole scenario needs to be CAREFULLY ANALYZED to see EXACTLY where, and exactly how the Bible does, or does not support the time-line under discussion.

Challenge is not the word I would use, amuse, even humor since it is not possible for me to even take such silly and completely non Christian teachings serious.

As you can see from this quote, the atmosphere here, on this site, is somewhat "hostile" to any serious consideration of the material I've presented. Therefore, I make no "blanket" promises or claims. But if you would address your specific questions to this thread, I'll do my best (worst) to answer them.

[Wondergirl]

What's the significance of October 20th, 2011, according to Mr. Camping?

[HeadStrongBoy]

Wondergirl:

What's the significance of October 20th, 2011, according to Mr. Camping?

The correct date is Oct. 21, 2011. It comes exactly 153 days after May 21, 2011. There are at least two specific references to this five month period. (Revelation 9:5 and Rev.9:10) One reference to 153 comes from John 21:11. But these references are only the tip of the "ice-berg." It remains to be shown exactly HOW all of the other information fits together with these pieces.

Oct. 21 itself is the vey last day of the five month period known as THE DAY OF JUDGMENT. On that day "the heavens shall pass away with a great noise and the elements shall melt with fervent heat. The Earth also and the works therein shall be burnt up." 2 Peter 3:10

[Wondergirl]

What happens if it doesn't happen as predicted?

[HeadStrongBoy]

Wondergirl

What happens if it doesn't happen as predicted?

Mr. Camping himself takes offense at that question. He says that he gimself does not even entertain such a thought because it is equivalent to saying "I don't trust the Bible."

Me ? I'm not quite that emphatic. I would say that somewhere in ALL the studying, praying, and writing we misunderstood something important. In that case we would clearly need to go back to the "drawing board" so to speak and ask some more very serious questions.

P.S. That's why I'm hoping some other people, besides myself, who are perhaps somewhat skeptical will approach this with an open mind (at least) and seriously look at the DETAILS of what Mr. Camping has published. Using their critical and analytic skills, with prayer, any errors or fallacies in reasoning may be exposed BEFORE we get to May. 21. When it will be too late.

[Wondergirl]

Mr. Camping himself takes offense at that question. He says that he gimself does not even entertain such a thought because it is equivalent to saying "I don't trust the Bible."

Mr. Camping, along with hordes of others, have messed up before with a prediction. It's not the Bible I don't trust.

BEFORE we get to May. 21. When it will be too late.

My money is on the belief that May 22nd will dawn, and all will be as usual. Why will it be too late? You're assuming he's correct?

[HeadStrongBoy]

Wondergirl:

Why will it be too late? You're assuming he's correct?

Yes. I'm assuming. Let's call it an "educated" assumption.

So, I take it you're not about to dive into a very thorough personal investigation of the published material. And it's all available free of charge, at the risk of repeating myself. And if you can think of any more questions, I'd be happy to answer, to the best of my ability.