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Bassetlady · Dec 25, 2010, 07:48 PM

She has been confrontational, beligerent and downright rude to me, the owner. She complains about everything. Nothing in the shop is to her liking. I have spent about $2,500 in improvements but she finds more to complain about. I have put up signs and held employee meetings about things she is not doing around the shop but she is still not pulling her weight. She has made statements about me to other employees that are damaging and untrue. She tries to take control which has lead to screaming matches between us.

ScottGem · Dec 25, 2010, 07:52 PM

If you are in an "at will" state you can terminate an employee at anytime without a reason. But it appears to me you have plenty of reason. She is a disruptive force that doesn't pull her weight. That's enough.

Fr_Chuck · Dec 25, 2010, 07:55 PM

Have you written her up for these actions ?

But in right to work states you can fire her for any reason you want, or just no reason, as long as it is not a protected class reason.

But why not document what she is doing, issue warning and do it for cause

ballengerb1 · Dec 25, 2010, 07:58 PM

Scott is correct but definitely find out if you work in an "at will" state or tell us where you live. If you are the owner of the shop then we can assume you have the right to hire, give raises, lower pay and to terminate. I am a little unsure about what you meant by "I have put up signs and held employee meetings about things she is not doing around the shop " It is a good business practice to discipline an employee face to face and to not discuss her with other employees. They can come to you to complain but you should primarily listen to them only

Bassetlady · Dec 25, 2010, 08:29 PM

Thanks. I am in NY. I have been told it is an at will state but did not know where to turn to find out answers for sure. The signs were because 2 days a week I am on the road. Other employees would call with complaints about her not doing her share.

They did not want me to say anything to her just complain to me. The signs were put up as a subtle hint which she did not get. Handouts were another hint which she didn't get. They just explained work everyone was expected to do.

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Fr_Chuck · Dec 25, 2010, 08:39 PM

Hints don't work in business, either address the issue or don't, If you are not directly telling her not to do something she can assume it is OK to do or not do it.

Do you have written job descriptions, has her performance been reviewed ? Has she ever been given a warning, ( official)

*** also don't answer in the comment feature, use the real answer and post an answer to your own question to give more info or reply

Bassetlady · Dec 25, 2010, 08:49 PM

No I haven't written her up. She always apologizes afterwards. I have taken management courses. I try to stay calm but she just keeps it up. After the last incident I thought she would quit but no luck. I have told her I have never had an employee

Treat me with as much disrespect as she has. She said she was sorry, she really enjoyed working at my shop and would work on herself. I have hesitated as she is on meds for anxiety and depression.

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Fr_Chuck · Dec 25, 2010, 08:59 PM

Ok, you are not listening, STOP using the comment feature, you are misusing the site features.

Actually answer your question to add more info.

So start writing her up, she will either correct her behavior, or you will be able to fire her.

Also if she shows you disrespect in a big way, esp in front of others, you can, ( as other companies d0) fire her for that. But if you have let her do it before, I would warn her first anyway

J_9 · Dec 25, 2010, 09:07 PM

Please scroll down your page to the "Answer this question" form to respond.

Now, as a former business owner in a work-at-will state, I will say that you need to have three (in my state) written write ups in order to fire her. Otherwise she can collect unemployment if you don't document why she was fired. I learned this by total mistake and ended up paying dearly for it.

Bassetlady · Dec 25, 2010, 09:21 PM

Thanks for being polite J 9. Fr. Chuck it was not that I was not listening. I was not getting the answers right away and did not realize I was answering in the wrong spot. I just found this spot tonight. I have never used it before. I thought the "my answer" area was were you people were answering my question and the comment section was where I answered back.

adthern · Dec 26, 2010, 03:37 AM

Bassetlady, I had the same problem when I started here...

Now, listen to what people are telling you, document her actions... the key here is that you can document 10 million infractions, but you don't have to ever fire her! Firing her is your choice, the documentation simply gives you the legal choice to fire her based on cause (which effects her ability to force you to give her job back or pay back wages should you be found to have violated some employment law in your jurisdiction).

Sounds to me like she is insubordinent, disruptive, unprofessional, I can't imagine she isn't tardy or absent. Apologies are fine and if you decide to let her stay you still write it doen and let her know exactly what she is doing that is unacceptable. No hints!

Now, by way of a hint, most employees don't like to see (written) that they are doing a poor job and that leads to uncertainty, which leads to them looking for another job, which could solve your problem without you even needing to fire her.

ScottGem · Dec 26, 2010, 07:12 AM

Originally Posted by Bassetlady

did not realize I was answering in the wrong spot.

Recently the designers of this site changed the "skin" (look and feel) of this site. In doing so they designed these different comments and answer sections. People who have used this site for a while can still use the older skin and answering using the Comments poses a problem in both skins. We do understand its confusing, but when you ran out of space in the comments that should have given you a clue. Anyway you have gotten the hang of it now.

NY is an at-will state. You might want to contact the NYS Dept of Labor to see if there are any rules about documenting firings.

But you have to be hard nosed in business. All of these discussions with her should have been documented. I would, at this point, write a letter detailing all the problems you have had with her. Point by point. I would then meet with her and discuss each point. As soon as she starts apologizing, stop her. Tell her apologies don't help. The only thing that will help is changing her ways. Tell she is on probation and any further issues you have with her will result in termination.

Bassetlady · Dec 26, 2010, 08:14 PM

Thanks for all your answers. I'm going to have to get hardnose. I'm not really worried about her collecting unemployment insurance. I talked with my accountant. Nothing goes against me. I pay into the state fund which it would come out of. Might be easier to just fire her and let her file for unemployment.

ScottGem · Dec 27, 2010, 04:48 AM

Good luck and keep us posted.

ballengerb1 · Dec 27, 2010, 08:47 AM

An employee working in an at will state can be terminated for no cause. You do not need write ups or reason. Employee Employment Termination at will | Employee dismissal

adthern · Dec 28, 2010, 07:43 AM

Simply being in an at will state, doesn't mean that you always can fire someone without any reason or documentation.

Each state and jurisdiction may have regulations that curtail that wide latitude, also, there are federally protected reasons. Example, even in an at will jurisdiction, you can not fire someone based on race, ethnicity, alienage, gender, etc...

Documentation is always the best advice, it shows there is more than discrimination (if that's claimed).

Also, if you have policies regarding discipline (you probably do not being a small biz) you could be liable for violating those policies (quasi-contract/contract).