[pugglemama]

Bailey is 3 months. She understands that she is supposed to do her business outside but doesn't. She is crated at night and intermittently during the day. She pees/poos in her crate and the house, sometimes right after a walk! BTW, she HATES walking, the cold, ice, and snow. She actually needs to be half dragged a good part of the way but has tons of energy when she gets inside her house. As I'm typing this, she just peed in her crate and then laid down in the urine! She has a sweater. Any ideas? She's driving me crazy!

[Wondergirl]

Did you get her from a pet shop or a neighborhood/backyard breeder? If so, the puppies are almost always kept in a cage and "learn" (i.e. have no choice) at a very young age that the only place to go is right where they are, in the cage. She may be doing the only thing she knows how to do.

We have several good Dogs experts here, and one of them will be along shortly to give you some tips. Meanwhile, read some of the potty-training posts in the Dogs section. And don't punish Bailey or get upset with her. She desperately wants to please you, so a lot of patience on your part will go a long way.

[pugglemama]

Yes we got Bailey from a pet shop. I'd appreciate some expert advice, although I've read a lot online and in the printed materials I received from the vet and the pet shop... The way I see it, Bailey hates the cold. She won't take proper walks because she's too cold. She's shaking she's so cold -- even with a sweater. She won't move very fast (or at all sometimes) which makes her colder, I think. Once we start heading home, she knows it. Suddenly she moves quickly. I don't need to drag her to move; she's dragging me. She doesn't seem bothered by the cold and isn't shivering. She doesn't get much exercise; a long walk for her is 15 minutes. And I pick her up and put her in my coat for part of the way 'cause she's so stubborn and seems so cold.

So, the consequence is that she does her business fast outside in my backyard only. She doesn't give herself time to pee and poo properly. Just a quick pop out and then back to the back door scratching with her paws to get in. Then there's the energy level. She isn't willing to get exercise outside so she does her "psycho puppy" routine inside. She bites and gnaws furniture, fabric, clothes, and people. She's burning up her energy, I understand, but she's no fun when she's so revved up.

This puppy is too much work. It's unsustainable. I can't be bringing her out every hour anymore and the accidents are too common. On a good day there are 4 accidents to clean up even with hourly "walks" in the back yard. Maybe it's the breed; I had a German Sheppard pup who wasn't half the work this Puggle is. Whatever the case, if anyone has solid advice I'd appreciate it.

[Lucky098]

Pet store puppies are very dirty dogs. They don't know how to be clean because they were never taught to be clean by their moms. Its going to be challanging, but it can be done.

First and foremost. Learn your breed. She is a mix (designer breeds are a hoax). Learn both breeds and what they are capable of doing and what they are good at and what they are bad at. That will help you understand how to train her. Ex. Pugs are very stubborn dogs and can be very difficult to house train.

Secondly.. How big is her crate? Is it huge? If so, get a smaller crate. The crate should be big enough she can turn around and lay down.

Put your pup on a schedule and keep to it! Feed three times a day until puppy is 5 months old. With feeding, give a drink of water. Maybe offer a drink of water periodically throughout the day. Don't ever allow free feed or free access to water. After 15 minutes take puppy out to potty. Maybe tie her to you so that way she can't sneak off to pee and that you can learn her signals. Puppies that grow up in dirty environments (the petstore) have very difficult signals. You might even have to teach your puppy a signal.

Pamphlets and books are great, but it seems like you need some real help. Sign up for a puppy class. Puppy classes go over techniques on how to house train puppies and how to work through these problems hands on. Some trainers will even go to your house for the training. Might be something you may want to consider.

Also, with all that said.. Please realise that your puppy is only 3 months old. Some puppies aren't house trained until there are 6 months - 1 year of age. Just be patient, calm and rewarding. Your pup will get it sooner then later.

[pugglemama]

Thanks for the advice. I'm not sure I understand about "signals". Some people with really smart dogs get the dogs to ring a bell. Is that what you mean? Once, Bailey brought her leash to me. I brought her outside and she did her business right away. She has access to her leash but she doesn't do that anymore. Is there another signal we can use?

Regarding the rest, Bailey has an adjustable crate and it's set to just her size. I'm going to start lifting her water and food after each meal. I'll do three meals per day. I'm going to get her a puppy parka today. After 4 weeks of getting adjusted to our cold weather... she still isn't. We'll try getting an expert to tell us what to do. I know the temperament of the two breeds from reading online, but I still need a clean house and I don't care that she's born stubborn. Deep down inside, I'm more of a "pug" than she is and she just has to shape up.

I'll let you know how Bailey does after all this.

[Wondergirl]

Be sure to praise her to the heavens when she does her business outside.

[pugglemama]

I tell her she's a good girl effusively. The last time I was this obsessed with bodily functions was when my kids were babies. The neighbors must think I'm insane but I don't care.

[Wondergirl]

Lol Wait until you are over 60 and have to go into the hospital like I did last year. The first question my nurse would ask each morning was [well, you know what the question was], and then would get so excited. I hear nursing homes are like this too.

[Alty]

Lucky covered this very well, I just want to add some further history on your puppy. Not only was she a pet store puppy (kept in a cage all day, not allowed to potty outside) but before that she was most likely a puppymill puppy, as that's where petstores get the majority of the puppies they sell.

This dog has a past life of never learning the proper behavior, of being kept in crappy conditions, and unhealthy conditions.

I know to us it's disgusting for them to pee and poo and then lie down in it, but if that's all you know, and aren't taught a different way, then that's what you get.

Patience is key. I know you probably want to strangle her because you think she should understand by now, but try to think of this from her point of view. She doesn't understand your words, only your actions. For the first 3 months of her life she's been in a cage and never been allowed to be a dog, romp and play. Any interaction she had with humans was likely done while she was locked in a cage. In puppymills they don't usually even clean up the mess. When the dogs pee or poo it's left in the cage with them, so they have no choice. Pet stores do clean their cages, but not immediately, and not often enough.

She may be cold on the walks, but my guess is that she's scared to be outside. If you had been trapped in a cage all your life and then suddenly taken out into the big world, I imagine you'd be a bit nervous. She wants in the house because the house is smaller, less scary. You can overcome this, but again, patience, and consistency.

Have you thought about puppy socialization classes? Take a look in your area for a class like that. Not one offered at a pet store. Pet stores are not known for hiring knowledgeable people. They don't need expertise on animals to work there. In fact, many pet store employees are teens that have no education on animals at all. They simply spout what their bosses have told them, and their main objective is to sell products or services.

Remember that she's still very young, and that training doesn't happen overnight. You mentioned that you have kids, so you've been through potty training before. It didn't happen immediately. They had to learn how to tell when they had to go, and they had to learn to signal you that they had to go. It took time. Well, your puppy is a baby, and it's going to take time for her to learn as well.

I wish you all the best. Also, we love pictures. :)

[pugglemama]

OK, I've talked to others and read more. Here's the plan. Bailey is a small puppy with a small bladder. So during the night, she will be kept in a full-size crate to give her space to do her business at one end and sleep in another. She will be more comfortable that way and will get used to sleeping in a clean space. The alternative is me getting up several times a night to take her outside and that isn't happening. I have to function the next day.

During the day, when I am at work, Bailey will not be in her crate. I know crates are the fad right now but that seems too cruel. We have cleaned out our mudroom. It's tiled and about 5' X 10' so she has some space to romp. She will be there all day, alone, 3 days a week (8-4:30) when I'm at work. For the other two days: I'm hiring a dog sitter to visit one day a week for 40 minutes and will be home the other day until 1 pm. Bailey will have water, a box with a blanket, and her toys at one end of the mudroom. There will be a litter box and pee-pee pads at the other end of the room. Again, we're reinforcing that she sleeps/plays separately from her business and not IN it. And we're experimenting here.

If anyone has any suggestions to add to this plan, I'll be happy to consider them. I'm brainstorming with a lot of people and incorporating many ideas. The overall goal is to have a dog that fits into our family's schedule, who receives love and affection from us (i.e. we pick her up 'cause she doesn't smell of urine), and who has a nice quality of life. MY quality of life is also important.

[Alty]

The plan is not good. What you're teaching her is that it's okay to pee and poo in her crate and in the house. Puppy pads are the worst invention ever, because people don't realize that they're teaching their dogs to potty inside.

If you're okay with her always peeing and pooing in her crate and in the house, than it's a great plan. If you want to teach her that pottying inside is not okay, than this is not the way to go about it.

If you're not going to use a proper sized crate than it's best not to use a crate at all. There's a reason that we recommend a small crate. This is not for play time, this is a comfy spot to sleep in. That's it. There should only be room to turn around and stand up. Of course crates aren't to be used 24/7 either. At your pups age of 3 months the longest she should be in the crate during the day, or when you're away, is 3 hours.

You talk about your quality of life, about not being willing to get up in the middle of the night if the dog needs to potty. I have to ask. What did you expect when you got the puppy? Did you think that training would happen overnight, or that the dog would sleep all night, pee and poo outside because that's what you want? Did you do any research on puppy care before you went to the pet store, or was this an impulse buy that you're now regretting?

Dogs are a lot of work. If you're not willing to put in the work, it's best that she go to someone who is. The more time you spend with her, training her, the better she'll be. You don't get something for nothing. If you won't put in the effort she'll continue to have issues. At this age it would be easy to re-home her. She's a puppy still, and everyone wants a puppy. If you wait a year or more, she'll be less desirable to others, especially if she still has all her bad habits, because the older she gets the harder those habits will be to break.

I'm saying all of this based on your posts, and I'm sure you won't like hearing it, but that's what I see from reading what you wrote.

[Wondergirl]

Here's the plan. Bailey is a small puppy with a small bladder. So during the night, she will be kept in a full-size crate to give her space to do her business at one end and sleep in another.

Does Bailey know she will be doing it this way? What if "her plan" (the only one she's ever known) is to do her business anywhere in the crate?

When you potty-trained your small children, how long did it take? Did you have "good quality of life" and lots of sleep back then? (I didn't, so I'm guessing you didn't either.) Did your children understand your plan for them and immediately comply? (Mine didn't.) Therefore, please don't put expectations on Bailey that she won't be able to fulfill.

[Alty]

I had to spread the rep WG, but I agree 110%.

[Aurora_Bell]

I totally agree with WG, Lucky and Altenweg here. Your pup knows nothing BUT peeing and pooping in her crate all day. When she was in the pet shop the dogs are left in those boxes for hours and hours on end. Do you think the minimum-wage paid employee's come in on their time off to let the pups out on a regular basis? I know they don't in any of the towns I have lived. She just doesn't know any better.

Puppy pads just add to the confusion, if it's okay to pee on one soft thing laying around the floor, then why not on the bed or the carpets or the blankets in the crate. Pet store pups are one of the hardest dogs to house break. It has to be a consistent routine with little to no variation in it. Every time she eats or drinks, she goes out side. You will probably have to wait with her, so bring something warm and comfy to sit on while you wait ;)

When she does her business praise like mad, offer a small treat. When she messes in the house or in the crate, you simply clean it up with a good enzyme cleaner. A vinegar and water solution works wonders. Don't allow her to pee or poop one day in the crate or on a pad, and not expect her to do it when ever she feels the urges.

Remember that lots of exercise will help stimulate her bladder and bowels, lessening the chances of her having these "accidents at home"

Good luck! And like mentioned before, we love pics!

[pugglemama]

Hi everybody,

I got on here to thank you all for your help and tell you how great it's going today to see these snarkey comments. I'm really disappointed. Enough with the holier than thou attitude folks. While I appreciate the help and brainstorming, you won't get people asking questions if you go all righteous indignation on them like you are with me. Sorry to have to tell you this but that's what I read from your responses. Anyone reading this thread will think twice about getting help from your website -- which is a shame because you all did help me quite a bit with this problem.

So in response to the comments: I didn't do this spontaneously. I thought about it for over a year. And I shopped around for breeds by asking my neighbors and other doggie people about their pets. We were planning to get a dog. I went to the pet store only to buy our rabbit her food and while there, my son fell in love with this pup. She was really sweet and loving so I understand why he loved her immediately. I researched the two breeds before we went back. We visited her 3 times. Why do you assume I'm a flake?

I'm not a snooty hybrid-type or, I must add, stuck-up pure-bred dog kinda' person. We folks who grew up on farms look down on you pure-bred types. Way too precious. So I was uncomfortable with spending all kinds of money on a pure bred dog anyway and don't see any big value in pure breds. This little pup is a mut, I understand, but then I like muts. We bought the personality and not the breed.

My history with dogs was in adopting a sheppard mix from a shelter. She was housetrained in a week or two. Super smart dog, great family dog. No one got up at night with her because she was a dog and just had to fit in with the family. Even then, we all had to work. That's how it is on a farm.

Bailey isn't as sharp as my sheppard. But despite your comments about the crate, it's working for her to have more space. I don't need her to get everything at once. She's doing her best. She can pee in one corner of the crate if need be so long as she is learning that she should stay clean. Since she is from a petshop, we're taking baby steps. And that idea came from a dog trainer recommended by our vet which someone here suggested I contact. I'm not an idealogue, I'm pragmatic. If it works for us, then I'll do it. And sorry about not getting up anymore at night. It's been 4 weeks now. I have to work and function. You folks who don't work outside the house can get up 3 times a night and nap during the day. I have to help support my family.

I'm sorry for venting, but the comments deserve every word of the above. If you're going to offer a service to people, you need to be realistic and supportive. The vet and the dog trainer here are. And may I add again, the larger crate is working. So is the mudroom. Why argue with success? Bailey hasn't laid down in her own urine all day. She is on a leash in the house and hasn't had a single accident. We are still taking her outside a lot and trying to see her "signals". I do think she is afraid of big spaces so that was another great suggestion. We are being patient with her.

Like I said, great ideas but way too critical and judgmental. If you really want to help people and their dogs, be supportive and constructive. Everyone contacting you is looking to do their best for their dogs. It's a shame because you've given great advice but the whole tone of these comments leaves a really bad taste in my mouth.

[Wondergirl]

I'm sorry you got that idea that the posts are snarky. You hadn't given us any info on your success with Bailey; all we knew about were the failures. I'm from a western NY farm area and know all about stray animals and rescued pets. I have no designer pets purchased at a pet shop. I volunteer at a cat shelter and have just added a socialized-by-us neighborhood feral cat to our family of three (rescued) cats. Two more ferals are on the front porch and are hoping we adopt them. We've spent hundreds of dollars to get ferals in our neighborhood fixed so they don't reproduce, and then continue to feed them (Trap-Neuter-Return). As you can see, I'm a cat person, but Bailey's story wrung my heart. I won't respond further to this or any other dog thread.

[Alty]

Snarky purebred type? LMAO!

I have three dogs. A lab/border collie cross that's 15 1/2 years old. He was one of an accidental litter a friend of ours had. I have a border collie/who knows what cross 9 years old, form the humane society. I have a pure bred beagle, 2 years old, paid $250 from a reputable breeder. So how am I am purebred snob?

I also have 4 rabbits. One pet store purchase, one abandoned, left in the street, found her way into our hearts bunny, and two humane society rescues. One bird that was given to us by a family that couldn't keep her because their son's allergic and two fish.

I'm a snob? Far from it.

I only asked if you thought about this and did your research because really, you have no idea what you're doing. You seem to think that this puppy will learn all on its own, without you losing sleep, and without a lot of effort on your part.

Should I quote the parts where you said you didn't want your life disrupted by this dog? Wakeup call! Puppies are disruptive. If you thought you wouldn't lose sleep with a puppy in the house, you didn't do your research.

Truthfully, your post upset me. We gave you advice, accurate advice, and you decided on the exact opposite, a course of action that will do nothing but mess up your dog even more.

So good for you, you adopted a puppymill dog, which means that more puppymill dogs will be bred, and more animals will die. Congrats. I wish you luck.

If you want further advice, I suggest you apologize to the other experts, because I will offer nothing further.

[Alty]

Bailey isn't as sharp as my sheppard. But despite your comments about the crate, it's working for her to have more space.

In not even a day it's working? How? You just decided on this. If this was already put into action and it's working, than why ask?

And that idea came from a dog trainer recommended by our vet which someone here suggested I contact

So, in the last day, since you started this thread, you contacted your vet and a dog trainer, set up this new system and discovered that it's wonderful. Really?

If you're going to offer a service to people, you need to be realistic and supportive.

We all volunteer here. We're here by choice. We don't get paid, and we don't deserve your scorn. We gave you legitimate accurate advice. Take it or leave it.

And may I add again, the larger crate is working. So is the mudroom. Why argue with success?

So for one day, since you posted this question, you've been using the large crate and mudroom and think you're free and clear? Let me know how that works for you in the long run.

Like I said, great ideas but way too critical and judgmental. If you really want to help people and their dogs, be supportive and constructive. Everyone contacting you is looking to do their best for their dogs. It's a shame because you've given great advice but the whole tone of these comments leaves a really bad taste in my mouth.

Not once was I critical or judgemental, but I will admit that I was concerned. Not for you, but for Bailey. The methods this supposed dog trainer has recommended are not something any dog trainer, vet, breeder or educated dog owner would suggest.

If you think for one minute, maybe you can understand our concern. You don't want to lose sleep (understandable, I don't like to lose sleep either) yet you got a petstore/puppymill puppy. Even a breeder puppy will have issues at first. Training doesn't happen over night, and at 3 months, expecting a puppy not to have accidents is unrealistic. It's like expecting a 6 month old child to use the bathroom.

If I was harsh it's only because I care about your dog. You chose to get a dog, the dog doesn't have a choice. From your posts you made it sound like this poor puppy should have been fully trained the first time you said no, and you just can't waste any more time or effort into training her properly.

The suggestion to re-home was made because at this point Bailey is young, trainable and adorable. Someone will be more than willing to take her. At 1 year, when she still has issues with house breaking, still pees inside, and when you finally have had enough (I got that from the tone of your posts) than she'll be harder to place.

I used to volunteer at the humane society. I worked in the kill room. I petted and comforted the animals that couldn't be placed in their forever home. Spend a little time watching 1, 2, 3 year old dogs, all with great potential, perfectly healthy, but ruined by an owner that was unwilling to put in the work, put to sleep, and maybe you'll understand.

[pugglemama]

Ooh did I hit a nerve! Line by line rebuttal? Well you feel defensive because this website is important to you and I'm dissing an aspect of it. I understand. Everything I said is true, however. When you simmer down and reflect, I hope you'll be mature enough to realize that being all high and mighty drives people away and you actually end up NOT helping dogs. Remember, that's what you volunteers are supposedly trying to do? Of course if this is just about your egos and wanting to be experts condemning us stupid dog owners, you won't even consider what I've said. That's too bad 'cause your insights were helpful and some people can only afford free advice. Anyway, don't hold your breath for my apology; I'll get my suggestions from the local trainer from now on.

[Alty]

Well, since you have it all covered and no longer need our advice, I'll close this thread.

Thread closed.