[johnherbert]

It is a simple question I have nothing to add

[donf]

John,

The answer is just as simple.

If you used a refilled cartridge or a third party cartridge in your printer, that's the failure.

As far as I know, ink-jet or laser printer manufacturers code their products to protect their products from this junk.

There is no way for a printer manufacturer to guaranty that third party ink will perfectly match the chemical design of their ink.

Also, FYI, most printer manufacturer's will void the warranty on their printers if bad ink is used. Some, like Lexmark and HP, consider this to be product tampering.

However, if you are using a factory new ink for your printer, contact the manufacturer and tell them they sold you defective cartridges.

[NeedKarma]

Is there any bigger scam than the price of inkjet ink? I can't think of any.

[donf]

Needkarma,

I will not dispute the fact that a large part of development costs may find their way into supplies. All supplies. But have you any idea how much work goes into product development and product test?

What scam are you talking about?

The scam that any ink will work just fine!

For 39 years I worked for IBM and then Lexmark as a the Critical Situation Manager (Fancy title) I have seen first hand the damage that crap ink can cause to a printer.

The problem then becomes larger if you add a warranty claim and unhappy customers because of print quality issues.

Just for grins, try to get an ink re-filler or third party company to pay for the damage their ink causes!

[NeedKarma]

I don't disagree that some third party ink can cause unwanted results in inkjet printers. My gripe is with the price charged for those retail cartridges. I'm surprised that someone in the business is not aware of the consumer's issue with the pricing, it feels like collusion is at play.

If you weren't aware here are a few links of interest:

[from 2003] Why Do Ink Cartridges Cost So Much? - PCWorld

High ink jet prices among dominant ink manufacturers have caught the attention of U.K. and European Union regulators.

Following a year-long investigation, a U.K. agency called the Office of Fair Trade (OFT) has recommended that Canon, Epson, HP, and Lexmark more clearly tell consumers their likely long-term printing costs. Printer makers have until October 2003 to better communicate the total cost of printer ownership, after which they face possible OFT monetary fines.

In December 2002, the European Union launched a similar investigation. "We are evaluating barriers to entry into this market, prices, and contracts that lock businesses into long-term relationships with OEM ink makers," says Tilman Lueder, European Union spokesperson.

Both investigations stem from consumer price complaints. Overseas regulators say that the gripes also came from remanufacturers and generic vendors, who claim that Epson and Lexmark are making it very hard to make compatible aftermarket clones.

[from 2008] The Grouse: The Inkjet Refill Racket | Popular Science

Printers are sold using the razor blade business model—the printers are dirt cheap, but you have to keep buying ink for eternity. And wouldn't you know, it turns out that printer ink, especially for photos, is probably the most expensive substance per volume you'll ever buy—more expensive than gold, oil, perfume, even blood in most cases. If you're buying name-brand ink cartridges, which typically hold a few milliliters of ink, you're shelling out the equivalent of between $3,000 and $5,000 per gallon.

Add to that the planned obsolescence which assures that landfills will choke on printers as people figured they might just buy a new one instead of buying the expensive ink. I'm surprised you weren't aware of this.

People seem to be turning to compact laser printer to try to escape the inkjet supplies racket, especially if they've given up on printing photos at home.

[donf]

I am very well aware of the issue and to tell the truth, there is "gouging" going on to re-coop development costs and supplies are a great place to do that.

Now, why ink cartridges? Because it is critical to the operation of the device and not easy to duplicate the chemical signature of the ink.

The same cannot be said for any paper products because paper is what you design your print head.

Also, the same is true of laser printers. That was my prime workload. I was just dragged in on some of the worst ink-jet issues that affected large volume customers.

Third party toner or refilled cartridges are just as big an issue and again for the same reason. Most third part toner mixes are not the same as the manufacturer's toners.

I did work on one real nasty problem for an European company where the toner was substandard but was packaged in "refurbished" Lexmark toner cartridges.

Now, why was that important, because they were not Lexmark refurbished (ETN) cartridges. When Lexmark recycles a print cartridge, they strip out the old guts and then rebuild the cartridge with new components.

The supplier the European customer used just took in old cartridges and dumper their toner into them. Print quality issues out the wazoo. We actually had to shut down the toner lines to make sure we did not have contaminated toner in the boxes.

I worked on this problem for over two weeks other engineers, designers, chemists were on it longer. While we were chasing this problem the team we had put together was unable to do their regularly assigned duties. The man hours used was enormous and it had nothing to do with the quality of our product or supplies.

[NeedKarma]

Now, why ink cartridges? Because it is critical to the operation of the device and not easy to duplicate the chemical signature of the ink.

Yep, and the manufacturers are trying their best to not allow any ink competition while (I believe) keeping the ink prices artificially high. The consumer is fed up and looking for alternatives, that why we see these questions and the market for alternatives. $3,000 to $5,000 per gallon of ink seems like gouging to me, gasoline is so much less and refineries costs a little more than a small motherboard, pressed plastic and a cartridge manufacturing. :)

[donf]

I disagree with you. But I guess we will just have to agree to disagree. I do not see ink prices high because of gauging.

Think of it this way. If you build a product to meet a demand niche (set by consumer demand at say $80 per unit), how do you make a profit for your company. As far as I know, most companies are in business to make a profit. To my way of thinking, part of the recouped revenue must come from aftermarket sales.

Also, your design has to consider ways to keep cost for customers down. For example, almost all of the ink jets I gutted use four or five cartridges.

One large black for text ) and of course the Cyan, Magenta, Yellow and Black for color.

I do not subscribe to your theory that it is just a way to bilk end users or deflect competition.

If nothing else the price set by manufactures, has encouraged competition.

[NeedKarma]

If nothing else the price set by manufactures, has encouraged competition.

This we agree on. :D I no longer buy colour cartridges and print rarely. I'll likely get a networked home laser printer soon.

[justdc]

I only buy the recommended ESP3 cartridges for my Kodak printer and it has the same problem with telling me I am out of black ink (even an hour after I put it in). I think it is a Kodak flaw but I wanted to comment on the price of cartridges... OUTRAGEOUS! It is a rip off. And everyone has overlooked one of the reasons they are expensive and I can sympathize on this ONE issue: meeting green laws and regs costs money. However, they build most of their products out of the country now to avoid paying high labor so it comes back to they are intentionally gouging. Hook them on the cheap printer price and gouge them on the ink forever.

[donf]

Green laws have/had nothing to do with it.

The price of ink cartridges has been the focus of attention by customers since ink jet printers hit the market place big time.