[Schulte]

I'm putting in a new tile floor that after leveling and cement board will raise the floor by at least one inch. So I must raise this cast iron flange. (OD 4-1/4”) However, I'm not sure what option I should use. You can see it is very corroded. Do I try to find an extension to raise it? (If so, recommendations.) Do I try to remove the Flange and find a replacement? (I don’t know the best way to try and remove it, or how to put a new cast iron one back on.) Do I cut the closet bend halfway back and clamp in a PVC elbow and flange?

Thank you.

[speedball1]

I see a 4" hub type closet bend and if that's a flange on the hub it's too far gone to be used. IF the hub was 3 or 5 inches under the sub floor I'd say to caulk a short piece of cast iron in for a stub-up. But if, as it looks the hub's too close to the floor line to do that. If it were me I would take out the lead and oakum joint and pull the old closet bend out. I would then install a closet bend less the hub,(see image)and either pour a lead joint or if you're uneasy about using flame that close to the wood beams I would substitute lead wool for heated lead. You may now install your flange at floor level and bring the stub-up back to grade. Good luck, Tom

[Schulte]

Tom,

Thank you. I'm okay with flame, but I just have never poured a cast iron joint before, and I don't have a Joint Runner or Caulking Irons. (Not that I couldn't go buy them.) And since replacing the closet bend is a horizontal joint, I should be able to make that work without leaks, but what about attaching the Flange, a vertical joint, how do you pour that?

This whole thing is on a second floor, so once I do it, and the floor is done, It's done, I don't have any access, and I can't afford any leaks.

A second follow-up would be to ask, if you use Lead wool, do you heat that in place, and do you still use Oakum? Another thing, is there any tricks to taking the old Closet bend out. Just flame and a screwdriver?

Thank you.

[Schulte]

Tom,

Just to clarify, when you refer to "hub" you are just talking about the end of the closet bend that the flange goes over?

Thank you.

[speedball1]

To remove a poured lead and oakum joint take a 3/8" drill bit and drill a few holes down past the lead and into the oakum.. Push a screwdriver under the lead ring and lever it up. Once it's free you can began to peel the lead ring out. Now pick out the oakum and you can pull the joint apart. The hub is the bell part of a fitting.

let me explain about lead and oakum joints. You just happened to reach a plumber who broke in on cast iron. A short course: It's not the lead that makes the joint water tight. It's okum, a hemp like material that swells up when water hits it. The lead is just to make sure the okum is packed in tight enough to seal. You should also know what special tools are needed to yarn and pour a joint from scratch. A lead ladle and a gas torch hot enough to melt it. Then you need lead and okum. Next you will need a , yarning iron to push the okum down in the joint. A packing iron to pack the okum down tight. If the joint is a horzontal one you will need a well oiled running rope to hold the lead in the joint untill it cools. And last you will need inside and outside caulking irons plus a ballpeen hammer. Take a length of oakum and run it around the inside of the bell/hub and tamp it down with a yearning iron. Do this untill the oakum is almost to the top. Now take the packing iron and ball-peen hanner and pack the oakum tightly in the bell. You should be left with a 3/8 to 1/2" of space for the lead. Too much oakum? Take some out and repack it. Now melt lead into the ladle and pour the joint to the top of the bell in one pour. Let the lead cool and set uo. Now take the inside caulking iron, ( the one with the bevel looking out) and caulk the inside of the pipe using enough strength to mark the lead well, but not strong enough to crack the cast iron bell. Do the same with a outside iron, ( the one with the bevel looking in.). If you use lead wool you just pack it and then caulk it. You have just yarned, poured and caulked a lead joint. You may now install a regular cast iron flange by a lead and oakum poured and caulked joint. Good luck, Tom

[Schulte]

Tom,

Once again, thank you.

Do you have any good sources for purchasing these tools and supplies?

Also, one last question, I think! If I'm attaching the closet flange, it fits over the top of the Closet bend after I cut it to the right height for the floor, and since you can't pour lead to flow up, is this spot I would for sure use the lead wool?

And when you say "If you use lead wool you just pack it and then caulk it." "Caulk it", is the action of pounding it in like the poured lead, correct. And do you feel Lead Wool is a satisfactory material to use?

Thank you.

[speedball1]

"Do you have any good sources for purchasing these tools and supplies?"
Since you'll only use them once I would rent a, yearning iron, a packing iron and a set of inside and out side calking irons. Also if you're going to pour a horizontal joint I would rent a running rope as well.

"If I'm attaching the closet flange, it fits over the top of the Closet bend after I cut it to the right height for the floor"
The cliset flange will fit over the stub-up and will require a poured and caulked joint. The excess stub up will be cut to floor level after the flange's installed.

" since you can't pour lead to flow up, is this spot I would for sure use the lead wool?"
The flange is a regular pour so I don't understand why you would think the pour is up instead of down.

"And when you say "If you use lead wool you just pack it and then caulk it." "Caulk it", is the action of pounding it in like the poured lead, correct. And do you feel Lead Wool is a satisfactory material to use?"

I prefer a poured joint but since all the lead does is secure the oakum I recommend it to askers that are leery of working with molted lead. Your choice! Regards, Tom

[Schulte]

Tom,

Thank you. In answer to: "The flange is a regular pour so I don't understand why you would think the pour is up instead of down."

Since I've never worked with cast iron, my only experience is how plastic pipe works. My mind's eye sees a stub cut to exactly the right height, and the flange fitting over the top, with the joint needing to be worked from below. From your answer I take it that the flange slides up and down on the bend freely, so when the sub-floor is in, I slide the flange down over the bend until it stops at the sub-floor, then I'm not sure how the oakum and lead is applied to complete the job. From the top somehow.

Sorry for using so much of your time.

Thank youl

[Schulte]

Tom,

You can see from this picture that the bend comes out of the T at a slight angle, any special techniques or tricks for getting a good seal on this?

What do you think of the plastic filler instead of lead? I read some people like it a lot.

Thank you.

[speedball1]

Remove the lead and oakum seal as I have directed and pull the closet bend out of the picture. Install a hubless closet bend as I have pictured eariler.
I have never used a plastic filler in place of a lead joint so I can't comment on that. Anybody out there ever use it?? Regards, Tom

[Schulte]

Thanks again Tom.

I'll post another question regarding lead or plastic and see if someone else has a comment. Hope Florida has a great year for you.