[excon]

Hello rightys:

You're right, and I'm wrong. We've ALWAYS been a$$holes. I thought it just started with Bush.

At the same time as the United States was prosecuting Nazi doctors for crimes against humanity, the U.S. government was doing the same thing. From 1946 to 1948, American public health doctors deliberately infected nearly 700 Guatemalans — prison inmates, mental patients and soldiers — with venereal diseases in what was meant as an effort to test the effectiveness of penicillin.

Should we apologize?? Sure! But, YOU don't want to apologize for nothing. Apology's are for pu$$ies.

excon

[speechlesstx]

The apology is already done, reparations are surely in order. You really should cease profiling us, ex.

Apologies for such things done are one thing, but apologizing on behalf of the American people to assuage collective liberal guilt for no good reason is entirely different.

P.S. It was public health officials, and these are the people you want controlling health care today.

[excon]

Apologies for such things done are one thing, but apologizing on behalf of the American people to assuage collective liberal guilt for no good reason is entirely different.

P.S. It was public health officials, and these are the people you want controlling health care today.

Hello Steve:

What?? Righty's don't feel responsible for what their country does?? Hnmm. I think I just hit on it. You DON'T. Dudes!

People who have no conscience are called SOCIOPATHS... Did you know that?

excon

PS> What you call controlling health care, I call writing checks to my doctor, and HE ain't infecting me.

[Just_Another_Lemming]

Good morning Excon. What bug is up your butt today? Dude, your sociopaths post doesn't make sense. Why do you feel conservatives are the only ones who don't have a conscience? The infections of the Guatamalans took place under Truman's watch. The concentration camps we placed Japanese-Americans in during WWII happened under FDR's watch. Both Presidents were Democrats.

Why should any U.S. citizen, liberal or conservative, apologize now for something that happened that was out of our control, not to mention, completely unknown to us? The Federal Gov't should do that. According to the article, that is exactly what has happened. In my opinion, the Democrats who are now in control are the right group to do the apologizing.

[speechlesstx]

What??? Righty's don't feel responsible for what their country does??? Hnmm. I think I just hit on it. You DON'T. Dudes!

People who have no conscience are called SOCIOPATHS... Did you know that?

You feelin' all right, ex? What part of "The apology is already done, reparations are surely in order" don't you understand?

Here let me explain in very clear terms, purposely infecting Guatemalans is bad. An apology and reparations are due.

Trying to enforce immigration law is good, apologizing to China for it - one of the worst human rights violators in history - is bad.

[excon]

Why should any U.S. citizen, liberal or conservative, apologize now for something that happened that was out of our control, not to mention, completely unknown to us?

Hello J:

So, if the Germans deny the holocaust, or say that it was "completely unknown" to them, does that mean they're NOT responsible?? Dudette!

Whether we knew it or not, it's KNOWN to us now, and WE did it. And, what's control got to do with it any way? How much "control" do you have NOW? Since you really ain't got "control", does that mean you're not responsible for what we do, even today??

excon

[paraclete]

Hey Guys, you know where all those Guatemalans you infected live now? What goes around comes around and someday you will be apologising to China for your immigration laws, but you really shouldn't lecture the Chinese on human rights, not until you get your own act under control

[tomder55]

The President finally found something worthy of apologizing for! Many of these scientists and politicians involved are still alive. Full accountability is in order here. The Hypocratic Oath was thrown out the window . You are correct . There is no difference between this type of experimentation than what the Nazi's were doing at the same time.

Progressives were and continue to be fascinated with eugenics... which came into vogue in progressive institutions like Harvard shortly after Darwin published. Many progressives like Teddy Roosevelt were fascinated with social Darwinism . Apparently he passed it on to his nephew Franklin and his progressive cronies .

Yes it is horrible ,as was Tuskegee . However ,Guatemala and Tuskegee pales when one thinks of the millions upon millions of butchered humans since 1973 .

[excon]

You feelin' alright, ex? What part of "The apology is already done, reparations are surely in order" don't you understand?

Hello again, Steve:

I understood it. I thought you were saying it TONGUE in cheek. Really. I KNOW Obama apologized, but I thought you were BUMMED about it like you usually are.. No, huh? Welcome to the human race.

excon

PS> Reparations are cool too? Dude. You ARE a liberal...

[paraclete]

However ,Guatemala and Tuskegee pales when one thinks of the millions upon millions of butchered humans since 1973 .

And once again I ask the question, you dare to lecture the Chinese on human rights?

[Just_Another_Lemming]

Hello J:

So, if the Germans deny the holocaust, or say that it was "completely unknown" to them, does that mean they're NOT responsible????

Whether we knew it or not, it's KNOWN to us now, and WE did it. And, what's control got to do with it any way? How much "control" do you have NOW? Since you really ain't got "control", does that mean you're not responsible for what we do, even today???

excon

You can't compare the holocaust to this in that way. Who here is denying that we infected the Guatamalans? Do you think the citizens of the U.S. during the late 40's knew about this experimentation? According to that article, we didn't. I didn't know about it before you posted it here. However, during the Holocaust, adult German citizens certainly, and without a doubt, knew the Nazis were exterminating people. Do I think a German citizen who was either a child that wasn't aware of what was going on or was born after 1945, should apologize for the evil committed during the war? Sorry, no. That is for their government to do.

If I am not in control, no, I do not feel I am personally responsible and owe an apology to anyone. The people we elect to run our government, the morons who make the decisions to do what they do without informing the citizens of their actions, need to step up and take responsibility for those decisions. And, in this case, it appears our government, albeit 60 years late, has.

[tomder55]

and once again I ask the question, you dare to lecture the Chinese on human rights?

I acknowledge the wrong we've done in the past,. condemn the wrong we are doing today ;and challenge them on their human rights record today. I see no inconsistency there .

[paraclete]

I acknowledge the wrong we've done in the past ,...condemn the wrong we are doing today ;and challenge them on their human rights record today. I see no inconsistency there .

Tom, I don't believe you, you live in yah yah land, You cannot see the inconsistency at quoting 1973 and millions killed on a whim in your own nation and in the same breath justify your preaching to others about human rights. Some times I think the Iranian religious fanatics are right, Satan is alive and well and living in America. The inconsistency is you want to say we did wrong in the past; mia culpa, mia maxima culpa, we do wrong today, mia culpa, mia maxima culpa; and then preach human rights when the chief abuse is still in place. You have little understanding of other places in the world, first put your own house in order

[tomder55]

Your own nation averages about 75,000 killing of babies a year . I suggest you do some condemning of your own for a change.

[paraclete]

Your own nation averages about 75,000 killing of babies a year . I suggest you do some condemning of your own for a change.

Hey I don't like the abortion laws anymore than you do, but we aren't racing around telling the third world how to behave.

[tomder55]

If you see a wrong you should point it out. Don't tell me I shouldn't be outspoken about the cruel living conditions women are subject to under radical Sharia laws .Don't tell me to keep my head in the sand while the Chinese harvest body parts for sale from political prisoners. Don't tell me to be silent about gendercide in China because my own country has a form of genocide ongoing... I condemn both .

[paraclete]

If you see a wrong you should point it out. Don't tell me I shouldn't be outspoken about the cruel living conditions women are subject to under radical Sharia laws .Don't tell me to keep my head in the sand while the Chinese harvest body parts for sale from political prisoners. Don't tell me to be silent about gendercide in China because my own country has a form of genocide ongoing....I condemn both .

I'm not telling you that Tom I'm saying if there is a wrong in your own nation then fix that so that then you have the moral ground to stand on, but what is the point of shouting over the fence at your neighbours when you have worse problems hidden in your own back yard. You shout about the bomb in Iran (if they are working in that direction) but you are the only nation who has actually ever used the damn thing and you live in fear of what you have unleashed.

Is there genocide in China? That is an allogation you need to prove, there is repression, and persecution, but genocide? I would expect there are more poor in america than there are in China. I don't hear you ranting about the millions who have been driven from their homes in the wars america is conducting in the name of defeating terror, how many of those are terrorised? How many more are terrorised by the drones that are constantly overhead? What I'm saying to you is don't be onesided

[speechlesstx]

I'm not telling you that Tom I'm saying if there is a wrong in your own nation then fix that so that then you have the moral ground to stand on, but what is the point of shouting over the fence at your neighbours when you have worse problems hidden in your own back yard. You shout about the bomb in Iran (if they are working in that direction) but you are the only nation who has actually ever used the damn thing and you live in fear of what you have unleashed.

Are you perfect, Clete? Are you ever "shouting over the fence at your neighbours?"

[DoulaLC]

Hey I don't like the abortion laws anymore than you do, but we arn't racing around telling the third world how to behave.

Austraila does indeed voice its concern and condemnation in what goes on in other countries. Australia is also very much in the middle of dealing with its own issues regarding human rights violations and discrimination matters, particularly in the Northern Territory. I have no doubt that this is partly why the government has not been more vocal regarding some of the concerns raised elsewhere. Change has been happening, but it had not been made an important focus until others voiced their concerns and made it more well known.

One main difference is that the US is often more vocal than most countries... the US also tends to receive a greater amount of publicity worldwide for its stance on various issues, as is witnessed in many newspapers and news programs, hence many people are more aware of what the US is saying on certain issues.

ALL countries have had, and continue to have, areas they need to work on to improve the conditions for their citizens, and most have likely behaved in ways in the past that the citizens of that nation would find abhorrent, but that certainly should not stop them from speaking out about injustices elsewhere as well... especially in those countries where the citizens don't have a voice to foster change. If other governments/individuals do not speak out for those people, who will? If the problems are not brought to the forefront and addressed, people would not be made aware of them, and the opportunity to correct them would not take place.

My house may not be spotlessly clean, and I may wish I had done something's differently with my own children, but that does not mean I should ignore a situation where I knew someone else's child was living in filth and not being cared for properly. I can, and should, bring attention to gain help for that child while I continue to work at making my own house even better.

[paraclete]

Austraila does indeed voice its concern and condemnation in what goes on in other countries. Australia is also very much in the middle of dealing with its own issues regarding human rights violations and discrimination matters, particularly in the Northern Territory. .

Yes we are very much in the middle of dealing with our own issues, you speak of human rights violations but how do you deal with a population who culturally in the stone age? Our answer was to leave them alone and for this we are condemned. One answer is to intervene and force change, for this we are condemned. You cannot mandate prosperity when you have a third world population in your midst and yet if one part of the population wants to live in ignorance and squalor you are condemned.

What do you do when you have illegal arrivals by boat who are at risk? We don't welcome them with open arms, but we don't do what might be done in less civilised societies

We look over the fence into Fiji but we have to be careful not to inflame the situation by making rabble rousing speeches, playing to a home audience. Are we frustrated by conditions in other places and even in the Northern Territory, certainly.