[Festoids]

Aurora Bell, just wanted to point this out (emphasis added)

Everyone who wilfully and without lawful excuse, kills or injures dogs, birds or animals that are not cattle and are kept for a lawful purpose, or places poison in such a position that it may easily be consumed by these animals, is guilty of an offence punishable on summary conviction.

Note the hypocrisy.

Much like most laws written by the states state this (paraphrasing): Any person who knowingly and willfully causes unnecessary pain, suffering, torment or death to an animal...

Then the states exempt hunting, medical experiments, procedures performed by a veterinarian and so forth.

Now don't get me wrong. I hunt. I love to hunt. I love to eat meat. But the state laws need to be consistent. If one can put an arrow or bullet through a deer for the sheer pleasure of doing so because they were given the permissions of the state (license), then it would be entirely permissible to do so to a domestic animal and it not be considered cruel. One cannot be cruel while the other can. It's based upon convenience. Much like the Canada law is based upon convenience, convenience because cattle are killed for the meat and most people eat meat. When one bases their decisions upon convenience it leads to hypocrisy.

All 50 states in the US have outlawed dog fighting like Canada has. Some states have made horse racing illegal, while others allow it to occur. There is no quantifiable difference between horse racing and dog fighting. I can go into this if you want to discuss it.

Then we get to what defines cruelty. Really, it's up to the investigating officer and the state to define cruelty. There is actual case law out of North Carolina where a dog trainer was charged with cruelty because when a dog didn't listen he dragged the dog over to a trough filled with water and held the dog's head underwater. He was found not guilty because he wasn't being intentionally cruel. It was his method of training. This is what I mean by defining cruelty. Causing unnecessary pain or suffering can define cruelty. For the health of the dog it is not necessary to castrate or perform an ovario-hysterectomy unless current health problems exist where the testicles or uterus are the cause of the problems. I.e. testicular cancer or mammary cancer (even though this type of cancer has a high mortality rate). One can say they're having it done to prevent the cancer from happening, but it's still not necessary to the animal. When I was working animal control I would get calls about cruelty. The complaint was "the dog is outside chained to his doghouse all day and nobody ever plays with him." Is that cruelty? For that person it was and to some of you it might be considered cruelty as well. The dog has food, water, shelter, though in most cases it wasn't vaccinated so a warning was issued. But it still doesn't constitute cruelty.

Little story about Rommel. I acquired Rommel in 2006 from an Amish farmer. Saw an add the paper where he was selling the puppies for $25 a piece. Of course there was no phone number only an address. Roll on out there the next day. The farmer had an Australian Heeler and the pups were mixed breed. Told me that the neighbors Rottweiler and Dachshund both got to his dog. The puppies were a mixed looking bunch, most were black and tan while one was all black and Rommel was the only one that looked like a heeler. Turns out he looks like a heeler, has the legs of a heeler, but much shorter, like a dachshund. When we walked into the barn all the puppies took off running so me and the farmer ran around for a couple of minutes collecting them. He said they were 8 weeks but looking at them I was seeing anywhere from 5-6 weeks of age. Well, I bought Rommel, paid the $25 and put him in my truck, on the front seat, whereupon he crawled onto the floor and promptly took a dump. Well, I figured that was a prime time to take a look-see and see how it looked. Pulled over and starting sifting through it. 90% of the feces was pure grain. So on the way back home I stopped at the feed mill and picked up equine pyrantel, ivermectin (for heartworm prevention later on), four doses of vaccines and puppy chow. He's still a relatively skittish dog, but loves people, especially kids (hears them playing outside and whines and cries at the door), gets along with other dogs and destroys every toy except for Kong bones meant for large dogs (takes him a year). He loves to ride in the vehicles, in boats, loves going camping with us because he can run free in the woods. I even take him small game hunting with me but he's absolutely worthless in that endeavor. But he likes the woods and at least he scares up squirrels every now and again. And that's some of ya'll's definition of irresponsible.

[Catsmine]

Little story about Rommel. I acquired Rommel in 2006 from an Amish farmer. Saw an add in the paper where he was selling the puppies for $25 a piece. Of course there was no phone number only an address. Roll on out there the next day. The farmer had an Australian Heeler and the pups were mixed breed. Told me that the neighbors Rottweiler and Dachshund both got to his dog. The puppies were a mixed looking bunch, most were black and tan while one was all black and Rommel was the only one that looked like a heeler. Turns out he looks like a heeler, has the legs of a heeler, but much shorter, like a dachshund. When we walked into the barn all the puppies took off running so me and the farmer ran around for a couple of minutes collecting them. He said they were 8 weeks but looking at them I was seeing anywhere from 5-6 weeks of age. Well, I bought Rommel, paid the $25 and put him in my truck, on the front seat, whereupon he crawled onto the floor and promptly took a dump. Well, I figured that was a prime time to take a look-see and see how it looked. Pulled over and starting sifting through it. 90% of the feces was pure grain. So on the way back home I stopped at the feed mill and picked up equine pyrantel, ivermectin (for heartworm prevention later on), four doses of vaccines and puppy chow. He's still a relatively skittish dog, but loves people, especially kids (hears them playing outside and whines and cries at the door), gets along with other dogs and destroys every toy except for Kong bones meant for large dogs (takes him a year). He loves to ride in the vehicles, in boats, loves going camping with us because he can run free in the woods. I even take him small game hunting with me but he's absolutely worthless in that endeavor. But he likes the woods and at least he scares up squirrels every now and again. And that's some of ya'll's definition of irresponsible.

I don't see irresponsibility here. You rescued him from a careless farmer(okay, some neglect on the farmer's part) and gave him care, medicine, and a home. You even knew which meds to give him. You didn't say so, but one has to assume you've trained him to return since he's not still in the woods. Home, care, meds, training: sounds fairly responsible to me.

Compare yours to a story from my little patch. A close friend rescued a sixteen year old girl from a bad home. The sixteen year old has a mongrel that she loves dearly but is completely clueless about training or medical care. The animal lived through some serious parasite infestations only because my daughter and the adoptive mother were less clueless. The sixteen year old wants to breed the mutt so she can have more puppies to raise. I'm all for learning by doing but this fits my definition of irresponsible.

[Aurora_Bell]

Festoids, we do have cruelty laws for cattle as well, but I did not post them because I figured it was irrelevant to our discussion, all though I did know that you were going to bring it up, that's why I posted the entire link. Have a look.

Alos as far as the "if we can shoot wild game, why no dogs"? Comment, we do not eat dogs, we also have hunting laws that stop people from killing for the sheer fact of killing. If one is caught killing and say taking antlers and then dumping the carcass, they do get charged, and are no longer eligible for their deer/moose license for a few years. Same goes with fishing.

I do feel that horse racing is just as cruel as dog fights, but that's a whole other can of worms.

[Catsmine]

we do not eat dogs, we also have hunting laws that stop people from killing for the sheer fact of killing. If one is caught killing and say taking antlers and then dumping the carcass, they do get charged, and are no longer eligible for their deer/moose license for a few years. Same goes with fishing.

At least in North America dogs are seldom on the menu. Neither are cats or horses. In other parts of the world that doesn't hold as true, but we do eat swine and kine.

[Aurora_Bell]

Right, but we are talking about North America. And we can get into the technicalities of all that is being said here, but I think we all have enough here in this discussion to start speaking of out side of N.A (and Australia :o )

[Kitkat22]

Right, but we are talking about North America. And we can get into the technicalities of all that is being said here, but I think we all have enough here in this discussion to start speaking of out side of N.A (and Australia :o )

Bella you know a lot about dogs. My sister has two Corgies.. one of them has diabetes. So sad. Cats I have to look up what kine is. Bella what sort of fees do they have in your part of the country to adopt a pet?

[Aurora_Bell]

It's usually based on donation, but the recommended amount is $200 for a full gown dog. Up to date with shots, altered, vet records and health guarantee. And that's what most people pay.

Puppies that are too young to alter come cheaper with a spay/neuter promise. It also comes with a "coupon" for a certain amount off the spay and neuter. If the adoptive parents do not spay or neuter the SPCA does come in and remove the dog.

Kine is the old English term for cow. God love your prose Cats :)

That is sad about your sisters Corgies.

[shazamataz]

At our local shelter puppies are $150 adult dogs are $90, all desexed.
Cats and rabbits are also $90 each but when you weigh up the cost of spaying/neutering it's actually cheaper than getting a free pet and getting it done at the vet yourself.

[Kitkat22]

It's usually based on donation, but the recomended amount is $200 for a full gown dog. Up to date with shots, altered, vet records and health guarantee.

Puppies that are young to alter come cheaper with a spay/neuter promise. It also comes with a "coupon" for a certain amount off the spay and neuter. If the adoptive parents do not spay or neuter the SPCA does come in and remove the dog.

Kine is the the old English term for cow. God love your prose Cats :)

That is sad about your sisters Corgies.

Wow you all have a great system there. The corgies are sweet. I like my brothers bassetts, they are the cutest things. My other sister has a little mongrel... she's mixed. Loves kids. My younger brother has a Lab.

[Alty]

Kit, I can tell you how much it costs at our shelter.

Puppy under 4 months - $300

Puppy 4-6 months - $265

Dog (small breed age 6 months and older, 12" to the shoulder, and/or 5 kg and under) - $265

Dog (age 6 months and older and more than 12" to the shoulder) - $185

Senior Dog (over 6 years - additional fees may apply for extra services like dental cleaning) - $85

Dog/Puppy and Cat/Kitten Adoption Prices Include:

-Spay or neuter surgery
-First set of vaccines
- Complimentary veterinary exam- courtesy of local participating veterinarians.
-FIV and FeLV testing for all cats/kittens De-worming (if under six months of age)
-Microchip identification
-Complimentary cat carrying box (cat/kitten/rabbit only)
-Adoption information kit
- One year free pet licensing through the City of Edmonton (if you live in Edmonton)
- One year free pet licensing issued for adopters who live in Strathcona County (beginning April 1, 2010)
- Free Edmonton Humane Society Behavior Hotline or e-mail assistance
- Low cost puppy/dog pet training classes
- Pet Insurance (complimentary pet insurance for six weeks after adoption)provided by Petsecure
-Health exam at shelter
- Collar I.D. tag (cat/dog)
- Training DVD (cat/dog)

[Aurora_Bell]

When I found two kittens in a compost bin a few years back, I knew I didn't want to keep them, but I took them in, got them up to date with shots etc, and spayed and neutered. (male and female).

It cost me close to $600.00 after it was all said and done. Kittens are $50 at the SPCA full grown cats are $90. So much cheaper to adopt than it is to buy or get for free and do it yourself.

I have a soft spot for Mutts Kit, something about them that pinches my heart.

[Alty]

At our local shelter puppies are $150 adult dogs are $90, all desexed.
Cats and rabbits are also $90 each but when you weigh up the cost of spaying/neutering it's actually cheaper than getting a free pet and getting it done at the vet yourself.

Shazzy, we have a new program at the shelter now. Rabbits over 6 months of age and desexed are now $50. Rabbits under 6 months of age, not yet old enough to be desexed are $75, but at 6 months the shelter will do the spay/neuter and that cost is included in the adoption fee. In other words, you're paying $25 for a spay/neuter. Beats the $300 plus I paid to have Cotton done.

[Aurora_Bell]

Here is the link to one of the shelters I volunteer at if anyone wants to have a look.

Nova Scotia SPCA - Metro Shelter

Another gorgeous staffy in there :(

[redhed35]

Here is the link to one of the shelters I volunteer at if anyone wants to have a look.

Nova Scotia SPCA - Metro Shelter

Another gorgeous staffy in there :(

Cindy lou and mercedes... I love them.

[Kitkat22]

Here is the link to one of the shelters I volunteer at if anyone wants to have a look.

Nova Scotia SPCA - Metro Shelter

Another gorgeous staffy in there :(

Those are sweetest kitties. I would love to work someplace with animals (the four legged kind).:D

[shazamataz]

I hereby place an order for 1 Georgie and 1 Digit please.

Here's the link to dogs at our local shelter at the moment
Animal Search Results

[Aurora_Bell]

Alty did you see the Beagles in my shelter? I'm doing the baby voice.

Mercedes is sooo sweet Red, so is Lady Bird.

[Kitkat22]

I hereby place an order for 1 Georgie and 1 Digit please.

Here's the link to dogs at our local shelter at the moment
Animal Search Results

Shaz... the chocolate lab and the Jack Russell and the border Collie and the black one that looks like M's... I LOVE THOSE DOGS!! :D

[Lucky098]

I don't think it matters if its legal, illegal right or wrong... Animals should not be absued because they are "property"

Animals want things, they have feelings and needs. They mourne the loss of a packmate and rejoice in seeing an old friend. They care for their babies and take care of the sick. They honor the older ones and teach their young right from wrong.

Festoids, you have warped thinking if you think its OK that animals are being abused for no reason. People are not killing dogs to eat them, they're just killing them because they're there. That is wrong. At least with wild game hunting, the animals are killed for food. And like Aurora stated, those animals are not allowed to be killed unless the season is open. Anyone who is caught killing game animals outside of proper season are fined a huge fine, their hunting license for ALL GAME is revoked and jail time is sometimes served.


Maybe you should move to China Festoids, They have the same thinking as you over there.

[Aurora_Bell]

I hereby place an order for 1 Georgie and 1 Digit please.

Here's the link to dogs at our local shelter at the moment
Animal Search Results

Trade you for Doris and Poomba!