[Kitkat22]

The lie you claim was proven to be total Bullsh*t. Proven in the Congressional record.

Every Member of Congress including all the Leading Democrats saw and are on record having seen those same reports and agreeing the WMD's existed.....except Obama who voted Present .
Anything else are total LIES spread by Democrats...

Seeing reeports is not the same as seeing the weapons. He wanted a chance to get sadaam and he did. Because as he so eloquently said; "He tried to kill my Daddy" There were no weapons.

[Alty]

He refused to attend a prayer breakfast after he was sworn in... but he attended a Muslim ceremony recently.

So is the problem that you believe he's lying?

If that's it, well, no one can really prove that he is lying. He says he's Christian, and I don't see any reason for him to lie about that. If he isn't, how can you prove it? Going to a Muslim school, having family members that are Muslim, that doesn't prove anything. My father was Catholic, my mother was Lutheran, I was raised Lutheran, baptized Lutheran, confirmed Lutheran. I was even married in a Lutheran church and my son was baptized as Lutheran as well. I went to a Catholic school.

I am neither Lutheran or Catholic. I was Lutheran. I did believe in the Lutheran religion for most of my childhood and many years of my adult life. I am now a Deist. I can't prove it though. If you base my religion on my past teachings, you'd have to say I'm Lutheran. I'm not.

I'm not into politics, especially because I don't get to vote (not a Canadian citizen). Also, I'm not in the US, so although I know who the president is, and have heard many things about him and his politics, I'm not as well versed on what he's doing in the US as a US citizen is.

The only issue I have with this thread and many of the posts in it, are his faith. The US prides itself on the constitution. The constitution states that freedom of religion is a right to every US citizen. Is Obama a US citizen? Yes. Does he not deserve the rights that every other US citizen has, that of freedom of religion?

You don't have to agree with other religions. Every one has the right to believe what they want. If he chooses to believe in Christianity, that's his right. If he chooses the Muslim religion, that's also his right. If he decides that there is no God and becomes an Atheist, that's also his right.

His religion shouldn't have anything to do with his ability, or lack thereof, to be President.

[tomder55]

Homegirl ;

My pastor never uttered such hate filled diatribes not in 20 years and certainly not in 15 second segments.

I don't think there is any place on a Christian pulpit for the Rev Wright's type of sermon.

That being said, I really don't think the President paid much attention . It is my contention that the Ivy League graduate attended the church for the street cred... pure political opportunism .

It was wise for the President to throw the Rev under the bus .Again ,the politically expedient move.

He would never be a practicing Muslim in this country .Why ? Political expediency.

[smoothy]

How has he set himself up to be called a Muslim?

His Autobiographies.. that he couldn't delare a national secretlike his College transcripts and his records as Illinoise senator and hide.

He also hung out with and palled around with The convicted Weather Underground terrorist.

His close buddies are in jail... he hung around with the nicest bunch of convicted criminals.

[Alty]

No I'm not saying that. I am a Baptist. I was brought up that you love people. I don't love a lot of people. I don't hate them. Let's say you were Catholic or Jewish. I respect your faith. You are a deist. that doesn't mean you shouldn't have the same rights as everybody else.

Or vice versa. Let's say everyone in the world were mostly diest. I should and you should have freedom to believe any thing you like. No Alty no one has a right to take away anyones freedom of religion. Obama set himself up to called a Muslim.

Kit sweetie, my post wasn't directed at you.

I agree with you. Everyone should be allowed their own beliefs. That's what bothers me about this thread. The topic "Obama: Christian or Muslim?" and the discussion, it shouldn't happen.

If there is freedom of religion in the US, this thread shouldn't exist.

[Homegirl 50]

I'm not talking about Reverend Wright, I'm talking about Obama. He has never been referred to as a Muslim and I would imagine you can find all kinds of unsubstantiated crap on some of those websites.

I do know people that go to his church and all of his sermons are not like that although he has been known to speak out against racial injustice.
Again have you heard all of his sermons, did you hear that one in it's entirety? What was the context in which that particular one took place.
You don't like Obama and that is your right but to make statements that are so wrong, based on nothing but your opinion is irresponsible.
The man is not a racist and he is not a Muslim.
He may not go to church every Sunday, he may not wear his Christianity on his sleeve but if he professes Christianity and he does, who are we to say he is not.
Unless of course you don't like him and so you will believe any negative thing that is out there and said.

[Kitkat22]

So is the problem that you believe he's lying?

If that's it, well, no one can really prove that he is lying. He says he's Christian, and I don't see any reason for him to lie about that. If he isn't, how can you prove it? Going to a Muslim school, having family members that are Muslim, that doesn't prove anything. My father was Catholic, my mother was Lutheran, I was raised Lutheran, baptized Lutheran, confirmed Lutheran. I was even married in a Lutheran church and my son was baptized as Lutheran as well. I went to a Catholic school.

I am neither Lutheran or Catholic. I was Lutheran. I did believe in the Lutheran religion for most of my childhood and many years of my adult life. I am now a Deist. I can't prove it though. If you base my religion on my past teachings, you'd have to say I'm Lutheran. I'm not.

I'm not into politics, especially because I don't get to vote (not a Canadian citizen). Also, I'm not in the US, so although I know who the president is, and have heard many things about him and his politics, I'm not as well versed on what he's doing in the US as a US citizen is.

The only issue I have with this thread and many of the posts in it, are his faith. The US prides itself on the constitution. The constitution states that freedom of religion is a right to every US citizen. Is Obama a US citizen? Yes. Does he not deserve the rights that every other US citizen has, that of freedom of religion?

You don't have to agree with other religions. Every one has the right to believe what they want. If he chooses to believe in Christianity, that's his right. If he chooses the Muslim religion, that's also his right. If he decides that there is no God and becomes an Atheist, that's also his right.

His religion shouldn't have anything to do with his ability, or lack thereof, to be President.

Everyone said JFK would never beat Nixon because JFK was Catholic. There's one for the books. He did win and was a very well loved President. Doesn't matter how you believe or I believe it's what we stand for that counts. I voted for Bush and I have regretted it. There had never been a Catholic president before, JFK changed that.

I'm saying we should all love each other no matter what we believe.

George Bush was a cheerleader in College and barely made passing grades.

[Wondergirl]

His Autobiographies

Did you read his books?

that he couldn't delare a national secretlike his College transcripts and his records as Illinoise senator and hide.

Those are private as someone has already told you. Even my husband can't get a copy of mine unless I give the college official and formal permission to release them.

He also hung out with and palled around with The convicted Weather Underground terrorist.

No, he didn't. His campaign for state senator started in his neighborhood and the host happened to be the Ayers. They served on a committee together for a while. Ayers knows more about me than he does President Obama.

His close buddies are in jail... he hung around with the nicest bunch of convicted criminals.

Wrong again. They are not close at all. I'm closer to you than he is to them.

[Alty]

Everyone said JFK would never beat Nixon because JFK was Catholic. There's one for the books. He did win and was a very well loved President. Doesn't matter how you believe or I believe it's what we stand for that counts. I voted for Bush and I have regretted it. There had never been a Catholic president before, JFK changed that.

I'm saying we should all love each other no matter what we believe.

I agree Kit. Faith shouldn't matter. Religion is just a belief. {{{{Kit}}}}

This thread isn't about politics, or who Obama is friends with, or what he has or hasn't done for the country. The OP asked if Obama is Christian or Muslim. That's it. Now it's turned into a fight about Obama's politics. That's not what the OP asked.

So, to answer the OP's question, freedom of religion is a constitutional right. Whether the president is Christian or Muslim doesn't matter, it has no bearing on his presidency. The fact that I'm in Canada, not the US, and apparently I care more about the US constitution than many of the people on this thread, is very sad.

[Wondergirl]

The fact that I'm in Canada, not the US, and apparently I care more about the US constitution than many of the people on this thread, is very sad.

(((((Alty)))))

[Alty]

(((((Alty)))))

Right back at you WG. :)

[Kitkat22]

I think Reverend Wright is a hate Monger. To compare him to Adolph Hitler is asinine. Six-million Jewish people. Remember? Rev. Wright should be thrown out of the church for spreading his hate and Bigotry.

Adolph Hitler was a monster.

[Kitkat22]

(((((Alty)))))

((((((( WG,Alty)))))) :):)

[Alty]

{{{Kit,WG}}}

Personally, I think it's time to close this thread. I can only see this getting ugly... er.

I respect everyone's right to their opinion, and to their faith, but the question the OP has asked should have been an easy one to answer. It shouldn't be on the 10th page of discussion/argument.

We have to learn to tolerate others beliefs. We don't have to agree with every religion out there, but the people that follow those religions have a right to do so. That's the bottom line.

Love you all. Smoothy, you know I respect you, and I like you, I just don't agree this time. Doesn't change the fact that I think you're a good person. I hope you can understand that.

Time to close?

[Homegirl 50]

Homegirl ;

My pastor never uttered such hate filled diatribes not in 20 years and certainly not in 15 second segments.

I don't think there is any place on a Christian pulpit for the Rev Wright's type of sermon.

That being said, I really don't think the President paid much attention . It is my contention that the Ivy League graduate attended the church for the street cred....pure political opportunism .

It was wise for the President to throw the Rev under the bus .Again ,the politically expedient move.

He would never be a practicing Muslim in this country .Why ? Political expediency.

How much of that did you hear, do you know the context of the sermon.
I grew up in the 50s and I would imagine white folk would have wanted to hang many a black pastor that spoke on bigotry and how white folk were doing blacks, how the government could care less because they were bigots too. That God would punish the United States for the evil of Slavery.
That was not hate speech but at that time it was truth. And there are pastors who will still speak on that truth.
I have also attended white churches that taught n***ers were not human and should not be allowed to sit along side whites. That they will not be allowed in their church no matter what law was passed and those fine Christians set up in there every Sunday knowing they were going to heaven.

This is about Obama. He has said he is Christian and unless you know what is in his heart, who are you to say he is not? I would venture to say he may not be the only one to go to a church because it made him look good. In fact there are probably a whole lot of folk sitting up in church every Sunday for that reason.

[Kitkat22]

How much of that did you hear, do you know the context of the sermon.
I grew up in the 50s and I would imagine white folk would have wanted to hang many a black pastor that spoke on bigotry and how white folk were doing blacks, how the government could care less because they were bigots too. That God would punish the United States for the evil of Slavery.
That was not hate speech but at that time it was truth. And there are pastors who will still speak on that truth.
I have also attended white churches that taught n***ers were not human and should not be allowed to sit along side whites. That they will not be allowed in their church no matter what law was passed and those fine Christians set up in there every Sunday knowing they were going to heaven.

This is about Obama. He has said he is Christian and unless you know what is in his heart, who are you to say he is not? I would venture to say he may not be the only one to go to a church because it made him look good. In fact there are probably a whole lot of folk sitting up in church every Sunday for that reason.

I lived in the South and never once did I hear a Pastor use the N word.
If one of us had ever uttered that word my Dad would have tanned our hide. I believe in God and Jesus and I have friends who do not. It doesn't make me love them any less.

I do believe that the Bible is being fulfilled every day and I think we are living in the last days. There are people who will scoff. That's fine.
I think we need to love each other and live like this were our last day on earth.. God is Love

[Homegirl 50]

KitKat, not everyone believes as you do and not everyone has lived as you have.
I have heard the word many times in my life and I have heard it uttered by so called Christians and pastors. Although some I think used the word because they grew up with the word. They heard it in their home so they use it, not realizing how ugly it is.
It's good that you have love in your heart.

I am a Christian and I don't hate anybody of any race or creed and I have a difficult time understanding the anger, hate and lies about Obama, based on nothing but the fact they just don't like him, so they will believe any bad thing about him and refuse to hear any good.
I'm glad our heavenly Father is not that way.
But people will be people and I am done with this.
Have a good night and weekend.

[Kitkat22]

KitKat, not everyone believes as you do and not everyone has lived as you have.
I have heard the word many times in my life and I have heard it uttered by so called Christians and pastors. Although some I think used the word because they grew up with the word. They heard it in their home so they use it, not realizing how ugly it is.
It's good that you have love in your heart.

I am a Christian and I don't hate anybody of any race or creed and I have a difficult time understanding the anger, hate and lies about Obama, based on nothing but the fact they just don't like him, so they will believe any bad thing about him and refuse to hear any good.
I'm glad our heavenly Father is not that way.
But people will be people and I am done with this.
have a good night and weekend.

I don't hate Obama, I did however despise George Bush and as I said I voted for him. I am concerned with the way the world is and how my grandchildren will have to face it headon. I was really hoping Obama could help this country heal. I don't think anyone but the good lord can do that.

[Alty]

Homegirl, I think that you're view on things is dead on.

I too hate the lies, or anything people can find to hate one man. Who cares what his belief is? It's not about belief, and that's a fact. It's about politics. It's about hate. This thread wasn't started and didn't continue because of religious belief. It thrived on hate. Religion was just the stepping stone.

I was raised Lutheran, but I have to say, my parents never pushed that belief on me. Now that I'm older (ha, older, I'll be 40 soon) I've decided my beliefs for myself.

I have friends that are devout Catholics, friends that are firm Atheists. I even have one friend that's a Satanist. I have Wiccan friends, Muslim friends, Baptist friends. Every single one of them are good people. I don't categorize them based on their beliefs, and they show me the same respect.

This thread is about hate. I couldn't sit by and watch it, so, in my own way, I tried to make everyone realize that the actual topic, whether Obama is Christian or Muslim, doesn't matter.

I don't know if I succeeded, but I do find it telling that all the hate posts stopped after I mentioned the constitution and the fact that I seem to care about it more than Americans do.

It's belief everyone. It means nothing to anyone but you. You have the right to believe whatever you want, as does everyone else.

[Kitkat22]

Homegirl, I think that you're view on things is dead on.

I too hate the lies, or anything people can find to hate one man. Who cares what his belief is? It's not about belief, and that's a fact. It's about politics. It's about hate. This thread wasn't started and didn't continue because of religious belief. It thrived on hate. Religion was just the stepping stone.

I was raised Lutheran, but I have to say, my parents never pushed that belief on me. Now that I'm older (ha, older, I'll be 40 soon) I've decided my beliefs for myself.

I have friends that are devout Catholics, friends that are firm Atheists. I even have one friend that's a Satanist. I have Wiccan friends, Muslim friends, Baptist friends. Every single one of them are good people. I don't categorize them based on their beliefs, and they show me the same respect.

This thread is about hate. I couldn't sit by and watch it, so, in my own way, I tried to make everyone realize that the actual topic, whether Obama is Christian or Muslim, doesn't matter.

I don't know if I succeeded, but I do find it telling that all the hate posts stopped after I mentioned the constitution and the fact that I seem to care about it more than Americans do.

It's belief everyone. It means nothing to anyone but you. You have the right to believe whatever you want, as does everyone else.

I think ignorance is the worst thing. My dad always said you can tell how a person feels in his heart by the way he treats other people. He taught me kidness is more important than being rich. I wish we all could come together and make a difference by showing love and tolerance and not turn a blind eye to hatred and racism and bigotry. I do hope Obama does a good job.

Alty you said it all, you and me and wg and hg all of us have that freedom. I hope people realize it came at a high price.