[dogjax]

I searched the “my girlfriend needs space” threads and found several answers that were good, but my circumstances are a bit more complicated so wanted to put mine out there. 9 months ago I started dating a woman who was getting divorced, her second, 1st marriage was 12 years, 2nd only 2 years, (1st ex was abusive - 2nd ex stole from her),I was and still am going through my first divorce after ten years. BTW, we each have 2 kids who are similarly aged and get along well. She came on strong, hot and heavy in the beginning, professed her love, and was full of compliments and praise, I was not quite as convinced of my desire but stayed in it and eventually grew to love her and see a future together. When I would ask if this was something she felt as well, (because we are 43 and I didn’t want to waste my time in a fling), she would indicate yes but needed time after 2 divorces and no time frame, I was fine with that and understood, after all still going through my own divorce. She also suggested we eventually live together to reinforce the potential long term future/marriage potential. While dating she needed temporary housing in between selling house with ex husband and getting her own house. So, for several months I opened my home to she and her kids, (she had an alternate place to stay but hated it so stayed with me about half the time when her kids were with their father - the alternate place was with Ex mother in law #1!), and during that time I was very supportive during the stress of her major ups and downs of not having her own home yet, divorce being finalized, child custody issues with ex #1, I was a shoulder to cry on, etc.. We had a lot of fun though too and I felt a deep connection which she agrees is/was there, she continued to be very expressive with her desires for me, we spent time as a family unit quite a bit, kids had fun together, etc. But, the 1st negative development was that when ever we would be separate, like out of town on vacation, etc. she would start acting strange, like she had separation anxiety and things would get awkward until we had the chance to be together, then things got back to normal until next time out of town. The first time we were separated, (and we would normall txt all the time when in town together but not physically together & she admitted in her break up letter she hates being alone), she got upset I didn't communicate as much as she would have liked, but I was a single Dad on vacation with 2 kids and parents, sister's family etc. just wasn't practical to communicate much. So just a month ago she got her own home and I helped her move in, do a lot of fixing up and helped her save money with remodeling. Things were awkard because I was just out of town, she was out of town before that, so she decided she needed to take a break and find herself and broke up over phone. Of course I feel betrayed given my support and putting her up in my home, helping her move and working on her new house, then getting dumped. So, the next day she then went with a girlfriend to see the movie Eat Prey Love and related herself to the main character who needs time to find herself. She says she wants to take 6 months to work on herself and that she hopes I will support her and be her friend during that time, that she cares deeply for me and she claims there is no one else, and she will not date during this time. She says when she’s ready to give herself fully and love again, “if I don’t hate her“, maybe I could be the one she will fall in love with and marry someday, because she says she decided she wants to get married again someday, as her kids asked her recently if she would consider marrying me someday, along with other men she has exposed them to and kept in touch with. She also has a pretty sordid history with men, keeps in touch with ex boyfriends, talks about her ex husbands still wanting her, and seems to like to string them all along and have a following of men who want her, she needs attention clearly. But, I do see many positives despite the negatives, and would be open to reconnecting because I love her, but don’t think being available to her for chat, txt, constant communication would be best, seems that is giving her cake to eat it to. I’m in need of finalizing my divorce and getting my career back on track, it’s been a source of concern for her, so perhaps she wants to see how I rebound financially and career wise from my divorce. Her situation in that regard is stable and secure. Question: without looking needy or sappy, giving her way, but since I’m interested, how should I keep myself in the game here? There is a network marketing company she just joined as a side business venture, I am involved in a similar business and she mentioned me joining her company just a week before breaking up. I wouldn’t see her much at all or have direct interaction with her as a result, however by joining her company and then succeeding, she would be aware of it, she would benefit financially as well from my success individually, and it could give her the opportunity to see me as a success and perhaps make her feel more comfortable in that regard. I'm certain she would want me to do this. Should I do this? Lastly, she offered to organize my closets, kids toys, etc. as repayment for my work on her home prior to the breakup, and she is still offering to do this now, should I let her? Sorry for the long ramble but it’s complicated, thanks.

[Cat1864]

I am going to blunt: Let her go. She is using you. Do you really want you and your children used as her safety net? That is what she is doing right now.

I highly doubt that someone who throws a fit over not getting enough attention when you are out of town and admits she hates being alone will refrain from dating other people or even getting married again to someone who is already divorced. Look at how she treats her other exes. Do you really want your number on that contact list?

How long after you separated from your wife and began divorce proceedings did you meet her? Did you date other women before her?

She is taking advantage of your desire to not 'have a fling'. You appear to be holding on to her for about the same reason.

You don't have to have flings or jump from one bed to another to enjoy dating and meeting new women. Give yourself time to get over this person as well as any lingering attachments to your wife. Get out and have fun.

Quite frankly, I would tell her to organize her own life and leave me and mine alone. No, you should not go to work for the same company she works for.

[dogjax]

Thank you for the feedback, it makes sense. I am curious your thoughts on this letter I received regarding the break up, if you would ad additional feedback after reading it, some family members thought it was sincere in some respects, I'm trying to read between the lines and see if she is really telling me the future holds some promise, or is it her just trying to feed me the koolaid some more so I will keep my feelings of betrayal to myself VS share with our mutual friends who hooked us up to begin with, and she expressed concern over me talking once she realized how played and betrayed I felt.

Thanks



"Disclaimer, I typed this on a turbulent plane, sorry for the anything incorrectly spelled or that doesn’t make sense. 

I feel like I’ve left you hanging out there right now and really don’t want you to wait anymore. I want to take a crack at articulating my position/head right now. Knowing that my days are booked solid from 7 a.m.-11 p.m. for the next three days. I should also preface this by telling you that Linda thinks there is no way that you will understand this, unless you’ve been there, it really is hard to comprehend (she’s been there before). I didn’t even understand it when she went through it two years ago. Nonetheless, here I go.

My tears Friday night were not over the break-up, they were over the similarities between the main character in the movie and myself. To summarize quickly, for some reason Liz (Julia Roberts) decides she is not happy in her marriage so she gets divorced, she then hops right into a new relationship. While she loves him and cares for him she just isn’t happy again, again she doesn’t know why. This then leads to a scene where she is just sobbing/crying trying to figure out what is wrong with her. Hence the context for her to take a year to go find herself, learn how to trust again, and find happiness. While I can’t go to Italy, India or Bali right now like she did, I can try and do my best here to make that happen. So much of what she said and what she learned in that movie rung true with me. I am afraid to fully give myself to someone because I don’t want to be disappointed again. I don’t trust like I should and I also am out of balance with my life.

I looked back and have realized that no more than 3 months have I spent solo (without a boyfriend) since the age of 21, and very few months before that. I have always had a boyfriend in my life. I was with “John” for the longest and through those 17 years, as he became more and more abusive, I totally lost myself. He wouldn’t allow me to spend much time with my family, wouldn’t allow me to spend time with MY friends, and truly controlled my life. While it is easy to see the errors of allowing this to happen, I was so in love with him that I would’ve done anything to keep him happy. I completely lost myself, my identify and who I really was. Obviously I see the wrong in that approach. During my three year divorce process timeframe, I spent a couple of years with my friend from Phoenix. He was a best friend, a safe place, and kept me feeling good throughout a simply horrible time in my life. He was like a security blanket, but I came to realize that he was just a band-aid for the time, and that our relationship did not have the make-up to be forever. I broke things off and literally told my girlfriend that I would go out on a date with the guy she had been trying to set me up with (“Steve”). The next week I met “Steve”.

Within that first date, we were attached at the hip. Talked on the phone, emailed and texted 24/7. Head over heels in love here. He was everything that “John” wasn’t, smart, fun, loved to go out, have lots of sex and so kind and loving to me. I felt like me again. Truly nothing I had ever experienced. Then I quickly found out about the money issues. While the good in “Steve” continued, so did this looming presence of a million dollars in debt (not including our house that was 100% mortgaged to $815k), and the feeling that I had been taken advantage of. Was this really love or was a just a ticket out of debt for “Steve”? I think found out my name had been added to some personal loans and other things, and I gave him hundreds of thousands of dollars thinking, this was the last time. It never was, there was always more debt coming in, I just didn’t understand it. Could I have been played, am I that dumb? “Steve” honestly tried to convey this wasn’t the case, but it was hard to see the truth given the severity of the financial situation. The impact that this debt would have my life and my boys if I stayed married was not good. It was finally when the IRS told me that his debt would be considered mine within 2 years that I decided I could no longer stay with him. I met you after the decision had been made and I was waiting to sell the house as you know. If you recall, I dove right in to our relationship even though I had said I wasn’t ready to date. Clearly, I don’t like to be alone.

We had some tough struggles given the oops, (abortion), and also my living situation, but we had a lot of fun and I care/d deeply for you. You were not just a companion but a great friend to support me through a tough time. But something was missing. I didn’t have that head over heels in love feeling that I had before with “John” and “Steve” where I wanted to spend every minute, wanted to talk all the time and tell you every single thing. I chalked some of this just up to my crazy living situation and the fact that I couldn’t use internet or cell from Ex Mother in Law’s house. I thought that it would pass once I was in my own house and things would get easier. But that feeling didn’t pass, I found that I preferred my time alone, and that I enjoyed it. Which isn’t right when you are in a relationship with someone right?

I’d read and was told that after a divorce (after it is final, not after they’ve moved out, separated or otherwise) that you need a year to heal, a year to truly figure out what went wrong and also to figure out how to learn to trust and truly fall in love again. During this year, you aren’t supposed to date or get romantically involved as you’ll take all that baggage into your next relationship. I never took that time and I am dragging around a hell of a lot of baggage. You had always told me that if I needed time to heal, that was fine. That is what I am asking for. You don’t need to wait for me, as I don’t want you life to be put on hold for me.

I don’t want to date anyone else, and haven’t met anyone else. I never broke up with people and moved on to others without feeling remorse or sadness (contrary to the way that you felt in past relationships) so that is not where I am coming from. I still care very much about you and your kids, but until I can fix me and get me happy, I am not going to be good for anyone. My boys both said they want me to get married again, they asked about you, they asked about my buddy in Phoenix, and basically any guy that they have met, including Kevin. This only reinforced the fact that I can’t mess up again, I need to do this right. I want to get married again, but with two failed marriages behind me, I know I need to fix some things to ensure that my next one is forever. I don’t feel that I can do that while in a relationship, so that is why I have asked to break things off.

You can be angry with me, or you can be my friend and support me (which I hope is the case), the choice is yours, but I also know that you are a ways from your actual divorce as well, and that you may want to take some time off as well. Even though you don’t realize it right now, take it from me, it is the smart thing to do. I don’t think I’ll do a full year sabbatical with no dating as frankly, I’m not getting any younger. But I will take at least 6 months to work on me, and get to the point where I can be happy. I’ve already started a 9 week program to do just that, and I’m looking forward to doing the work to ensure I am as healed and solid as possible so that I can fully give myself to that next guy (which may be you if you are still around and don’t hate me). I can’t fully do that right now. I don’t trust anyone right now, and I don’t feel that I am ready to fall head over heels right now until I feel better about me.

So while this probably sounds completely out there, it is where my head is at and I hope you respect that. I am sorry, but I hope this makes a little better sense to you. It has been difficult to articulate but I know how I feel and what I need to do.

Our time together was real and we truly have a great connection. I also enjoyed the time we spent together and felt we have a lot of similarities. You were my best friend and supported me greatly and I appreciate that and will not forget that. Hopefully some day you will be able to forgive me for this and hopefully after some time you’ll realize that I am back to my old self and ready to trust and fully love again."

Thanks. Xo “Kelly”

[Cat1864]

That was a nice long rationalization if I have ever read one. I think she thinks she is being honest and open. She may even believe (or try to convince herself she does) what she wrote.

I get the impression she is writing a movie script where she will go off, find herself and in a couple of weeks/months 'discover' that she is 'head over heels' in love with you. When she comes rushing back you will be there with open arms and understand what she has been through. Alternate ending would have her falling madly in love in a month or so and expecting you to be at her wedding because you understand what she has been through. This is reality not a movie based on a real story. Life goes on for the people not on camera.

It comes down to she doesn't have strong feelings for you. What she does have could be summed up as a good friendship. You have been there for her. She hopes you don't 'hate' her so that you will still be there for her.

I wouldn't 'hate' her, but I wouldn't stick around or keep in touch with her. Take care of your own life and children. Sort out your own baggage. Organize your own closet. It can be a huge learning experience about yourself when you start looking at what is hiding at the back. It can also be fun to get the children involved.

[Jake2008]

Well, she does have some points.

She is unhappy, she's not divorced yet, and is still getting her footing as a mother with two children to raise. She's fortunate that she has support from her soon to be, husband.

You are still going through a divorce, she is still going through a divorce, neither of you are ready or able to make a long term commitment right now, as you are both still entwined in the emotional and physical aspects of regaining your idependence from your respective spouses.

Why you allowed her to move in with you, with her children, was probably something that you didn't work through very well. She became dependent upon you, before, during, and after that happened. So soon after separating, both of you might have been a little more sensitive in regard to the needs of your children. Far too soon to put your girlfriends needs above your children's needs, and they too go through an adjustment period. To introduce a 'family' type situation was too much too soon in my opinion. She should have gone with any other option, rather than move in.

Under the best of circumstances, a nine month relationship is barely getting your feet wet, and decisions were made far too quickly.

Neither of you are available is how I see it. Both of you need to be single again, before you can even consider adding a new partner, let alone think about a long term relationship.

When you are single, and she is single, and the divorces are behind you, a year is a general rule of thumb for a waiting period, or adjustment period. Particularly in regard to your children, they too have adjustments to make, and it is, was, and will be, too soon to introduce a step mom, before they've also had time to adjust.

I am not saying she is a bad person, only that she is not available. And neither are you. Far too much guessing and confusion surrounds the endless 'what if's', and too much emotional stress, after such a short relationship.

My advice to you is put yourself and your children first, without adding any complicated relationships. Take her lead, and consider the relationship over for now. She is clearly saying she needs time and space.

I wouldn't work with her under any circumstances. And while a relationship may seem like a good idea for a lot of good reasons, give yourself the gift of time when you are finally divorced, and you and your children are strong and happy together after significant time has passed.

[dogjax]

Cat1864 you make some great points, I chuckled at scenario #2 with her expecting me to be at her wedding in 1 month, you have a good read on her. Boy, it sure sucks getting dumped, forgot what it's like, has not happened to me in 15+ years so a bit of a shock to the system. Appreciate the insightful feedback and will take heed to it by cutting off contact, as well as passing on closet organization offer. Jake2008 thank you as well, good points you made. Just to clarify she didn't move in with me with her kids. She had a place to stay with her kids, (just didn't like it as ex mother in law's house), so I gave her my house to stay any time, when I was out of town she would come and stay at my house with her kids. Other than that she only stayed with me when her's were with their Dad and mine were with their Mother. We would have get together's with the kids and us all hanging out but not living together ever as a family unit. Nonetheless, certainly rushing into things was a mistake I regret at this point, as well as exposing my kids to her as they grew to like her too, ugh. Thank you!

[Cat1864]

At the top of the Relationship Board are a few stickies about break-ups. You might want to read them and see what tips you can pick up to help you weather this a bit easier.

Good luck.

[Jake2008]

Sorry I misunderstood the living arrangements there.

You seem to me to be a person who just needed to know, that your doubts and confusion are reading the same way on this end.

Be grateful that you made more good decisions than bad, and that you are thinking clearly, with your priorities straight.

All the best to you dogjax.

[dogjax]

Cat1864, if I could trouble you for one more bit of advice here, I have a desire to craft a response letter to her's, (not a 3 pager but something more simple and to the point), she broke up over the phone, sent me the email letter, so talking at this point doesn't feel worthwhile, but for my own closure I would like to pen something that will be poignant but also leave the door open. You may think I'm crazy for wanting to do that, and I may change my mind down the road, but for the moment I would like to think if she works things out to improve herself, tests the waters and doesn't find what she's looking for, I don't want to burn a bridge because I do see good in her. Perhaps point out something to the effect that I'm not buying into all the self rationalization, maybe point out the fact she used me in her own selfish way, (not necessarily intentionally but I have serious doubts about how calculated and premeditated she was with her actions), something that will not be too harsh but also not let her think she spelled it out so clearly and I now think she's this wonderful person who just needs to find herself, if that makes sense? Can you give me some bullet points for a letter to help me play an "upper hand card" at this point in the form of a well crafted response, to help me with closure? Not to play a game as not my intention. I feel no response will give her the feeling I've tucked my tail between my legs and I'm sitting in the corner sucking my thumb, which I won't be doing I can assure you, but don't want her to think I'm going to wait around for her either.

[asking]

I generally agree with Jake. Your friend doesn't sound that bad. It seems unfair that you have helped her through her divorce so much and now she's not going to be there for you. But the truth is that you both made a bad decision in leaping into this relationship and neither of you should be dating at all, let alone putting your kids together. There's more to divorce than paper work and custody agreements.

As for the job, if you genuinely would not see her there, or are not secretly hoping to see her there, then I think you should take the job if it's what you want. But don't do it if she's in the same building etc.

Take a break, try not to hate her, and organize your own stuff.

EDIT: I am not convinced she used you in any hard hearted way. I think it's likely you used each other mutually and if you had dumped her, we would be hearing from her all the things she did for you. I would not dwell on that part of the problem.

[dogjax]

Thank you Jake2008, much appreciated!

[dogjax]

I appreciate the additional insight Biology Expert, I'm not going to hate her, but your assessment on how it's unfair is how I feel. Ultimately, I realize everyone has to make their own choices and someone generally gets hurt when it comes to break ups. Glad I stumbled on this site, this is a very therapeutic and helpful release, thanks.

[dogjax]

The reason I need to come up with some type of response to her letter, and I would like some recommendations on what to say, is because of emails like this I just received from her. She knows I am a fan of wine, but ***? She just sent me the long break up letter 2 days ago.

"spent 4 hours in a wine cellar for our company dinner last nite, amazing place....I was top salesperson this year so got to select a bunch of great wines for the group....here are a few and more that you may want to add to your list. The Sommelier (sp) said these have been consistent year to year.....

Silver Oak, Cab
Emeritus, Pinot
Rochioli, Pinot
Roar, Pinot (AWESOME)
Hartford Court, Land's Edge, Pinot
Goldeneye, Pinot
Loring, Pinot
Gundlach Bundschu, Pinot,
Domaine Serene, Pinot
Pisoni, Pinot (AWESOME)
Iscosceles Justin, blend 2007 (AWESOME)
Jordan, Cab
Jordan, Chardonnay
Sonoma Contraire, Chardonnay

am running ragged from so many meetings, hope you and the kids are well.

Take care."

[asking]

Yeah, she has clearly not processed the fact that she just dumped you. She's in denial, probably partly because she feels guilty and, also, has mixed feelings about the breakup. Would you describe her impulsive?

I would tell her you were serious about her and you are not interested in a casual friendship now and need to go No Contact.

[Cat1864]

If you feel like you have to send her something, how about going along the lines of:

I think we should stop all contact between us. It would be best for all concerned if we made a clean break and didn't allow confusion over relationship boundary lines to hold us back from moving forward. No sense in keeping false hope alive in ourselves or our children.

From what you have written she has a habit of holding on to exes, IF she truly wants to break the pattern she has set in the past, a clean break with you is the only way. Otherwise, it is more of the same.

She also has a pretty sordid history with men, keeps in touch with ex boyfriends, talks about her ex husbands still wanting her, and seems to like to string them all along and have a following of men who want her, she needs attention clearly

[dogjax]

She is definitely impulsive, and she has all her ex's still in her contact list, of course ex #1 is father of kids so understandable to be in touch with, ex #2 is paying back money he stole every month, but she also just had lunch with him recently, (about and IRS issue needing to be discussed), and then mentioned he was sending txt messages about how he still wants her. The boyfriend in Phoenix, where ironically she is for business right now, she visited early in the summer while on vaca with her kids. She mentioned before leaving she was going to meet with a "buddy" while out there, I asked if ex boyfriend and she said yes, but just for a night at the rodeo, then it turned into an overnight, with her kids, at his house. She was upset that I got a bit alarmed by that, swears nothing happened and not a cheater. As well, another thing recently that caused her to get very defensive, recently she invited me to her high school reunion, then day before txt'd saying only for grads from her school were allowed, NOT, but I let it go. Next day I was getting some things at her house and noticed candles around her bed which were not there night before. I decided it was appropriate at that point to ask her if there is someone else. She claimed she picked up her kids that night on way home from reuinion and was just them wanting to hang out with her and light candles, she got very angry I insinuated possibly someone else. So, yes the exe's are something she seems to like to hold onto and some of the recent behavior got me guessing on her motives and she got very defensive when I brought it up in a very non accusatory manner. Definitely don't want to feed into the control she likes to maintain with ex's. BUT, I realize she has been through a lot, has issues, I'm the type to work with emotional struggles, (I have a mentally ill brother so I'm more patient and understanding), and so I don't want to play into her need to let me down easy and feel better abot herself for doing so, and I don't want to be her buddy, but don't want to be too harsh in my response when I think she is somewhat sincere and has mixed emotions. I would like to try and work on things further if she wants that down the road, that's all. Trying to figure out how to say that. Thank for your support and advice.