[excon]

Hello:

On another thread, RickJ brought up a recent Christian conference he attended. He said "..the theme was how to view the teachings of the Church on "Social Justice" (the Catechism, the Encyclicals and the writings of the US Conference of Catholic Bishops) with what the US and the World "teaches" regarding that "Social Justice"."

I wonder if he knows that he went to a COMMUNIST church. I'll bet not.

He might change his mind after he hears what Glenn Beck said about "social justice". On his show last week, the conservative broadcaster, radio host, best-selling author and all around phenomenon criticized any church promoting "social justice" or "economic justice," claiming that these words were merely code for Naziism and communism.

"I beg you look for the words social justice or economic justice on your church Web site," he said. "If you find it, run as fast as you can. Social justice and economic justice, they are code words. ... Am I advising people to leave their church? Yes! If they're going to Jeremiah Wright's church, yes!"

I must admit that I, too, didn't know that good Christians who believed in social justice were commies and Nazi's. Did you?

excon

[tomder55]

I can't make heads or tails about what libertarians think.

[tomder55]

BTW ,the difference between the church and Communism or any other statism is that social justice is not compelled redistribution.
Charity compelled is no virtue.

[NeedKarma]

Glan Beck is insane. We should stop giving him any free publicity.

[tomder55]

Glan Beck is insane. We should stop giving him any free publicity.

Yup

[RickJ]

That's not fair, excon. My Church as preached and taught against communism/socialism for a long time.

I'm not sure who you were speaking about when you said "he" two different times in one sentence.

Glenn Beck does not speak for me or my Church or my faith

He says some good things and some stupid things.

Regardless, "Social Justice", for Christians of my sort means first requiring that ALL humans (from conception to natural death) be afforded equal dignity and respect.

Does that mean that "we are all equal"? In some ways, yes, and in other ways no.

Volumes have been written on this subject, so I cannot do justice in one post, but I'll say (what has been said before) this about "Social Justice":

Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime.

Give the man a fish and he will be hungry and reliant on you tomorrow. Teach him to fish and you have done your part toward "social justice" - and then it is up to him to use that knowledge to not be hungry in the future.

No, I do NOT change my mind based on what Glenn Beck has to say. Why should I? I don't refer to Glenn Beck on any issue.

Communism and Socialism only reduce everyone to the least common denominator.

Frankly, I think that everyone should beware the term "social justice". It means different things to different people.

To me it means (and by the way, this is what is taught in the Catechism of the Catholic Church, and what is explained by many Encyclicals and writings by the US Conference of Catholic Bishops):

1. Every human (from conception to natural death) is equal in dignity and "rights".

2. A person or a government should NOT do for someone what he can or should do for himself.

There is much much more, but if anyone wonders what the Catholic Church teaches about "social justice" then he should read

1. Pope Leo XII's Encyclical from 1891 "On Capital and Labor"

2. What the US Conference of Catholic Bishops have written recently about "social justice"

[RickJ]

Glan Beck is insane. We should stop giving him any free publicity.

Frankly, I do not like Glenn Beck... but he does not have "free" publicity. He is on the air because the media gives him the space.

Do you advocate limitations on what speakers the media should be "allowed" to permit on their radio and TV stations?

[NeedKarma]

He is on the air because the media gives him the space.

Actually you are correct here. He is air because millions of americans tune in to watch him. Take that as you will. :-)

Do you advocate limitations on what speakers the media should be "allowed" to permit on their radio and tv stations?

No, that's why I used the term "free publicity".

[speechlesstx]

So you believe conservative Christians are hypocrites for not following Obama's gospel of redistribution. Where exactly in the scriptures do we find that?

[excon]

That's not fair, excon. My Church as preached and teached against communism/socialism for a long time.

I'm not sure who you were speaking about when you said "he" two different times in one sentence.

Hello again, Rick:

You misunderstood me. I wasn't accusing you or your church of anything. I'm a social justice kind of guy. I was accusing the Beckster.

I guess I could have written it better...

excon

[excon]

So you believe conservative Christians are hypocrites for not following Obama's gospel of redistribution. Where exactly in the scriptures do we find that?

Hello Steve:

Well, I'm not a Christian, so I don't know WHERE to find it... But if the conservative Christians you're talking about, DO the "Christian thing", then they DO redistribute the wealth...

That would be, of course, except for those conservative Christian church's that believe their donations should enrichen the church instead of helping the poor. There are THOSE conservative Christian churches, aren't there?

Now, I agree. I made up the stuff about the "Christian thing" being to help the poor (the blind, the crippled, etc). But, if it's NOT about "redistributing the wealth", what IS it about?? The pastor needs a new Caddie??

excon

[RickJ]

"Redistribution" is a very scary word. I know that some define it one way and others define it another, but as for me I am FULLY AGAINST any sort of Robin Hood philosophy of taking from the rich and giving to the poor... except in the cases where the rich got their riches in an "unjust" (aka dishonest) way.

Which reminds me of recent "penalties" given to organizations who made millions and maybe even billions by misleading others: They make millions of dollars by lying to those that they made the money from and then the government fines them a couple hundred thousand dollars.

Some call this justice, but I call it a SHAM!

If one can make a million dollars by deceiving people, knowing that the fine will be a small fraction of the money that they made, then what sort of justice is that?

[NeedKarma]

If one can make a million dollars by deceiving people, knowing that the fine will be a small fraction of the money that they made, then what sort of justice is that??

Reminds me of television evangelists.

[speechlesstx]

Tom answered it, the "social justice" Obama adheres to is "compelled" redistribution - the Robin Hood plan. I'm sorry, but the dollars I give are used much more effectively then the dollars the government takes.

[RickJ]

Amen, NK! Yeah, THAT'S what I'm talking about! There is no difference whether it is James Baker or Emron or Countrywide Bank or BP!

Shams and scams should not be "rewarded" by piddly fines or rhetoric. They should be shut down and their profits taken and given back to the people that paid into them.

[speechlesstx]

Reminds me of television evangelists.

Of which some are the scum of the earth and some are of an honorable character.

[RickJ]

Of which some are the scum of the earth and some are of an honorable character.

Of course. "some" in any group are the scum of the earth... but "some others" do great things.

Reminds me of Bishop Fulton Sheen who won an Emmy long ago. Back in his day he got a bigger audience than anything else on Television... but today the masses are not so interested in hearing good stuff that is good for everyone.

Nowadays the masses are more interested in watching Sex in the City, Friends, etc.

[speechlesstx]

My favorite scumbag was Robert Tilton. He used to sell "prayer cloths" to vulnerable people and mumble all kinds of gibberish as if he were speaking in tongues when he was probably just saying he “shoulda boughta Honda.” I used to stay in a motel across from his 'church' when I went to Dallas Cowboy Games, the 'church' looked like "Six Flags Over Jesus."

[excon]

tom answered it, the "social justice" Obama adheres to is "compelled" redistribution - the Robin Hood plan. I'm sorry, but the dollars I give are used much more effectively then the dollars the government takes.

Hello again:

We've been over this stuff before, but it's time again... I'm NOT a redistributor either. Or I am because I believe in providing a safety net. The safety net IS redistribution. I've used the fire department as a perfect example of how we SOCIALIZE some risk. Protection against death and destruction from fire, DOES take from the RICH homeowner, and give to the POOR homeowner. For whatever reason, we think that we SHOULD protect the poor from fire, and we're willing to PAY for it... It's a redistribution plan that everybody accepts. Protecting people from death and destruction due to lack of health care is the same kind of thing.

Doing that is good. If that makes me a socialist, then you are too - unless of course, you want to get rid of your fire department.

excon

[NeedKarma]

The demonizing of all things referring to socialism is one of the success stories of the conservative plan to seed Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt is the lesser educated populace.