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talaniman · May 18, 2010, 04:21 PM

All of you should be in No Contact, to heal, and move on to the next great adventure. Its hard, but will get better.

Homegirl 50 · May 18, 2010, 04:39 PM

I have to spread some rep talaniman but I agree wholeheartedly with you.

I think you should break ties all around. It will eventually get better for you and the kids. Tell her to stop calling and texting.
End it completely.

Tired10 · May 19, 2010, 01:48 PM

Thank you for your replies. An update:

I got a call today whilst I was on my home from picking my son up from school. I returned the call and it was her son on the phone asking of he could see my son, he is used to seeing him on Wednesday as that is my contact time. I said that we were having a bbq but would try and fit a quick visit in.

Well I duly went up after the bbq and dropped my son off, I said that I would leave him there as it thought was best. She looked hurt but said OK.

I returned to pick my son up and felt the need to explain to her where I was in my mind and also explain my not staying whilst my son was there. I explained that in order for me to heal properly etc that I could not be in contact with her as it was damaging my recovery and that I couildn't pretend we were a family anymore as it was clearly not the case after our break up. I said that I have no problem in letting the contact between our children to continue. I also said that she obviously see's me as emotional crutch and her contacting me was not only about the best for the children, I said her actions were selfish. She agreed with everything I said and said she understood,

I have been feeling pretty positive for the last couple of days and in a position where I accepted the fact we were together no more, I told her this.

She subsequently broke down and said that she was a mess and unable to sleep, think etc. She had tried to get over me but was unable to, going out etc when she could.

She said she loves me and was so scared she had made the wrong decision, and wanted her mind to be back where it was when we were together BUT was afraid of hurting me again and that she can see me with someone else being very happy and that the thought of this is tearing her apart.

After a reasonably long discussion of how bad she feels and her state of mind I felt sorry for her of course. I asked if she thinks she is depressed (she has been on medication once previously during our relationship), she said that she thinks she is and that she cannot face going to the doctor.

I told her that she must and that if she wanted to talk to me at anytime about it that I would always listen to her, I emphasised that me listening would be for the right reason i.e. not to use at as a way to get her back, I do really mean that. I am incredibly worried for her present state of mind and for her children.

I did intend to tell her that I could not go on our planned holiday together but felt at this point it would destroy her.

I still feel OK in myself, I am not moping around and kind of had an inkling that she was at this crisis point anyway, although she tried to discguise it.

As I feel strong in myself still, I feel that maybe I can help her in some way if only by listening to her. I still realise that at this point out relationship is over, however I am not the type of person to kick somebody when they need help and support, especially when children are involved.

Kitkat22 · May 19, 2010, 01:54 PM

Originally Posted by Tired10

Thank you for your replies. An update:

I got a call today whilst I was on my home from picking my son up from school. I returned the call and it was her son on the phone asking of he could see my son, he is used to seeing him on wednesday as that is my contact time. I said that we were having a bbq but would try and fit a quick visit in.

Well I duly went up after the bbq and dropped my son off, I said that I would leave him there as it thought was best. She looked hurt but said ok.

I returned to pick my son up and felt the need to explain to her where I was in my mind and also explain my not staying whilst my son was there. I explained that in order for me to heal properly etc that I could not be in contact with her as it was damaging my recovery and that I couildn't pretend we were a family anymore as it was clearly not the case after our break up. I said that I have no problem in letting the contact between our children to continue. I also said that she obviously see's me as emotional crutch and her contacting me was not only about the best for the children, I said her actions were selfish. She agreed with everything I said and said she understood,

I have been feeling pretty positive for the last couple of days and in a position where I accepted the fact we were together no more, I told her this.

She subsequently broke down and said that she was a mess and unable to sleep, think etc. She had tried to get over me but was unable to, going out etc when she could.

She said she loves me and was so scared she had made the wrong decision, and wanted her mind to be back where it was when we were together BUT was afraid of hurting me again and that she can see me with someone else being very happy and that the thought of this is tearing her apart.

After a reasonably long discussion of how bad she feels and her state of mind I felt sorry for her of course. I asked if she thinks she is depressed (she has been on medication once previously during our relationship), she said that she thinks she is and that she cannot face going to the doctor.

I told her that she must and that if she wanted to talk to me at anytime about it that I would always listen to her, I emphasised that me listening would be for the right reason ie not to use at as a way to get her back, I do really mean that. I am incredibly worried for her present state of mind and for her children.

I did intend to tell her that I could not go on our planned holiday together but felt at this point it would destroy her.

I still feel ok in myself, I am not moping around and kind of had an inkling that she was at this crisis point anyway, although she tried to discguise it.

As I feel strong in myself still, I feel that maybe I can help her in some way if only by listening to her. I still realise that at this point out relationship is over, however I am not the type of person to kick somebody when they need help and support, especially when children are involved.

The only way you can help her is by making her see a doctor. If she doesn't try to help herself, then you don't have a chance at helping her yourself. Do you still love this woman?

Tired10 · May 19, 2010, 02:06 PM

Kitkat22

That is a fair point about seeing a doctor, I asked her 3 weeks ago in text to promise to see one, her reply was 'we shall see'. I guess at this point she thought could get herself under control.

As for loving her, yes of course I do, I can't just flick a switch and turn my love off after 5 weeks. I suppose the strength that I display may come across as not loving her anymore. When in fact has come from family and friends, and doing new things with friends I had lost contact with and are in fact some of the best friends one could ever wish for.

Kitkat22 · May 19, 2010, 02:16 PM

Originally Posted by Tired10

kitkat22

That is a fair point about seeing a doctor, I asked her 3 weeks ago in text to promise to see one, her reply was 'we shall see'. I guess at this point she thought could get herself under control.

As for loving her, yes of course I do, I can't just flick a switch and turn my love off after 5 weeks. I suppose the strength that I display may come across as not loving her anymore. When in fact has come from family and friends, and doing new things with friends I had lost contact with and are in fact some of the best friends one could ever wish for.

I know what you mean about friends. I still am best friends with my High school friends and that was many years ago. How do your friends feel about her and does it matter how they feel?

I'm not being cynical, I just wish your relationship with this woman was
Worth saving. Love is a horrible thing sometimes... I truly think you can love and hate someone at the same time. Do you ever feel that way?
I think about your child and hers and think.. it's sad.. but if she is making your life miserable... you have to think of your own child and yourself first.

I hope you keep posting and I also hope you find peace in this situation. I know you have a good heart and it's been broken. Blessings

Tired10 · May 19, 2010, 02:38 PM

Thank for your reply once again, I shall continue my best to keep posting updates, not too often I am not obsessive! well I don't think I am!

My friends that know here think that she is a nice, funny, lovely warm person and that it's a shame that we broke up. My family said the same at the time of the break, although now think that she has 'issues' and will always probably have them. They all of course want me to be happy and my family in patricular hate to see me upset and hurt, I show my feelings more to them. It does of course matter to me how they feel considering the great support they have given me, family and spending time with my family/girlfriend in a comfortable atmosphere is a must.

I felt some hate towards her at the weekend, I had been out drinking and returned home with these thoughts. Although woke up feeling better, my friends of course told me this was not the way to feel about her, but they understood, that's from what I remember anyway!

My relationship with my son did suffer for a short while, I was tense with him and unable to think clearly. All is well now, I do realise he has to come 1st, crikey I spent three years trying to get increased/defined contact with him.

She is no longer making me feel miserable, something changed within me over the last 4 days. I cannot try and tell you that I am completely in control over my feelings for her, but I am a million miles away from where I was 5 weeks ago.

I guess that's the question is the relationship worth saving, at this point I am not sure, do I need/want someone who on the positive side will need so much time and support and 'may' work out, or alternatively someone who will screw with my head forever if I let it go on ad infinitum.

talaniman · May 19, 2010, 02:50 PM

You have to be very direct, and be busy, and unavailable to them all. Sorry guy, but until you get healing, and contact will only add to the confusion, misery, and pain. You can want to be there and help her, but you are not qualified, and she has to deal with her own issues. Its tough now, but you never know how much better things will be after a proper healing, and I mean that by all of you.

Kitkat22 · May 19, 2010, 02:56 PM

Originally Posted by Tired10

Thank for your reply once again, I shall continue my best to keep posting updates, not too often I am not obsessive!, well i don't think I am!

My friends that know here think that she is a nice, funny, lovely warm person and that it's a shame that we broke up. My family said the same at the time of the break, although now think that she has 'issues' and will always probably have them. They all of course want me to be happy and my family in patricular hate to see me upset and hurt, I show my feelings more to them. It does of course matter to me how they feel considering the great support they have given me, family and spending time with my family/girlfriend in a comfortable atmosphere is a must.

I felt some hate towards her at the weekend, i had been out drinking and returned home with these thoughts. although woke up feeling better, my friends of course told me this was not the way to feel about her, but they understood, that's from what I remember anyway!

My relationship with my son did suffer for a short while, I was tense with him and unable to think clearly. All is well now, I do realise he has to come 1st, crikey i spent three years trying to get increased/defined contact with him.

She is no longer making me feel miserable, something changed within me over the last 4 days. I cannot try and tell you that I am completely in control over my feelings for her, but I am a million miles away from where I was 5 weeks ago.

I guess that's the question is the relationship worth saving, at this point I am not sure, do I need/want someone who on the positive side will need so much time and support and 'may' work out, or alternatively someone who will screw with my head forever if I let it go on ad infinitum.

What you need is to keep feeling as you do now. You are happier and you must have regained some of yourself confidence. It isn't up to you to make her happy if it makes you and your son miserable. I think in time there will be another woman in your life and you'll know it. Just don't fall into the trap of a rebound relationship.. they rarely work.

You cherish that little boy, I can detect that when you speak of him. That's very wonderful you have such a good relationship with him. I just know you're going to get over this and you need too. You are well on your way. Your son will be there when no one is. When you get lonely just think of the things you have to be thankful for. This relationship with your son will keep you afloat and so will your friends and family. Don't get drawn back in if you are sure you don't want to be with her and I honestly think the reason your eyes are open about her is because you are relieved to be out of such a toxic relationship.

Don't feel guilty... you have no reason to feel that! Good Luck

Tired10 · May 19, 2010, 02:57 PM

talaniman

So in essence walk away?

Tired10 · May 19, 2010, 03:14 PM

Kitkat22

Yes I think you are right, I have regained myself confidence. I of course love my son to bits and indeed have a great relationship with him, I appreciate you saying that he will be of great comfort to me.

I have wondered if my strength has come from reflection upon the relationship and it's toxicity, I am not quite in touch with my view of it enough to see it that way, or maybe I mask it foolishly in my mind.

As for a new woman, I am done with them, es! Seriously I am only joking. I am no doubt I could find somebody else that would make me happier, we had a LOT of truly great, funny, special moments and went through so much together. However I have to accept it's over and that it was just another cycle in my life.

I do feel guilty, I know I shouldn't. I am not responsible for the way she is.

It's all such a shame, but I guess it's the reality of life.

Kitkat22 · May 19, 2010, 03:50 PM

Originally Posted by Tired10

Kitkat22

Yes I think you are right, I have regained my self confidence. I of course love my son to bits and indeed have a great relationship with him, I appreciate you saying that he will be of great comfort to me.

I have wondered if my strength has come from reflection upon the relationship and it's toxicity, I am not quite in touch with my view of it enough to see it that way, or maybe I mask it foolishly in my mind.

As for a new woman, I am done with them, es! Seriously I am only joking. I am no doubt I could find somebody else that would make me happier, we had a LOT of truly great, funny, special moments and went through so much together. However I have to accept it's over and that it was just another cycle in my life.

I do feel guilty, I know I shouldn't. I am not responsible for the way she is.

It's all such a shame, but I guess it's the reality of life.

No you are not to blame and you shouldn't feel guilty, even though it is part of a process. Remember the happy times and who knows what will happen down the road. Don't put your life on hold... be happy and God Bless you and that precious little boy.

Tired10 · May 21, 2010, 04:32 AM

Well here is a little update:

She still continues to text and I continue to reply, yes I am a fool maybe!

She asked to see me to talk about the holiday we had planned. She said that we should go away still and that the children deserve it, oh and also that it may just get us back together. I thought at this point she was laying on the guilt, oh and trying to instill some false hope.

Hmmm I thought, so I said that it wouldn't help anybody if we went. At this point she said you may as well leave then, Which I did after about 10minutes. Her manner was very different from when she broke down the evening before, kind of emotionless, cold and distant. I pointed this out to her and she said all she was trying to do was cope.

Anyway I have left it there for now, she still continues to text and erm I continue to reply, silly me I keep getting drawn back in.

As for how I feel, I am OK, eating well, sleeping well, and going to the gym, seeing friends etc, oh and not upset anymore, but still taking the bait :eek:

Kitkat22 · May 21, 2010, 04:52 AM

Well.. seems as though she is having a hard time letting go. How do you feel about no contact at all?

In another post someone said if it is over... then your children have to accept that sooner or later.

I think ,since you are happy and you're getting your life back together that should tell you something.

Do you or have you ever thought of marriage with this woman? I honestly think you were both going through a horrible time and you found solace in that.

Two divorces... neither of you were at fault.. both of your spouses cheated your wife with her husband.

Comforting each other turned into more than friendship and now you are over the pain of the divorce. She probably is too.

She is afraid to be alone and maybe that's why she keeps wanting you back. You are stronger.

I wish and hope after all is said and done you can remain friends and so can your children.

I think I would ask her not to text or call you anymore. It will be hard to do that but she needs to learn to stand on her own two feet.

She is scared because there has always been a man in her life. Only an opinion but I did think about this yesterday and I hope it helps... Blessings... Kit

Tired10 · May 21, 2010, 11:34 AM

Thank you for your response Kitkat22.

I just need to clarify one point here, not that it makes a huge difference.

Neither of us were cheated on in our marriages. My ex wife and her ex husband had a child 19 years ago. The split in our respective marriages was nothing to do with the two of them being together, far from it!

I am a little tainted from marriage and so is she, I believe we were both in agreement that there was no immediate need for marriage, our respective marriages only officially ended mid last year.

I have asked her if her not getting me out of her head is just simply the loneliness of me not being there, she says not and that she has occupied herself and still cannot stop thinking about me, but maybe it is more the security of me being around and that she feels vulnerable without me.

The no contact bothers me for some reason, I cannot quite sort out in my mind if it truly for the love of the children or if I still want it to be right between us, I suspect it is a bit of both if I am honest. So that puts me at this moment in time in the same place as her, i.e. not being able to quite let go. Whilst I do think about her it does not drive me insane nor does it make me sad, honest! The family aspect is however painful.

Maybe you are correct that her attachment is simply because she is scared to be on her own, after all she did end the relationship and I am sure she did not do that lightly, she would have thought it through for some time and at no point has she been knocking my door down begging forgiveness and saying we should be together forever.

I know that she is a very needy person and in my opinion she attracts needy friends that can be quite transient, she has something about her that can attract friends easily but they never seem long term devout friends, odd really. Anyway not quite sure why I added that bit.

Not sure where this will end, but My head tells me it won't be with the two of us together forever :)

talaniman · May 21, 2010, 12:42 PM

She says she loves me but enough to commit to me and that it wasn’t fair what she was doing to me. I have been through many emotions over the last 5 weeks, the loss of what I saw as a family,

I think when you both have had time to cope with whatever feelings that have you confused as to what you want from each other, then maybe friendship can be possible. But no one knows how long that will take, no one. Its only been 5 weeks so hang in there.

Homegirl 50 · May 21, 2010, 01:00 PM

It takes time. Both of you are trying to get the other out of your systems.
It takes longer for one person than another, but it will happen.
I think both of you know that you are not right for each other but it does not make it any easier to let go.

Tired10 · May 24, 2010, 03:59 AM

Thank you for the replies.

She called me by 'accident' on Friday Evening, it was a short conversation. We continued to text after that through Saturday, culminating in me spending most of yesterday with her and all of the children. I asked if she was still confused about things as she seemed to be a brighter in herself, she said that we should both look to move on from this, I was fine and excepted that, no dramatics or hysterics.

I stayed a while longer and then left with my son as we had to be elsewhere. She started crying as we left.

I am still OK about all of this and have maybe realised as somebody has already pointed out I probably started to see that the relationship as it was, was 'toxic'. I think I had started to pity her and think that as she is, she will never be able to give what the other wants in a relationship unless she changes in some way significantly. It's sad to think of someone whom will probably never be able to give and commit there love to another.

I have just read another post on here that sums it up rather well.

"Sometimes to a person who is so needy, the relationship is very much one sided in that, they are not in a position to offer of themselves, what they have come to accept, and expect from you."

The relationship was of course one sided and she controlled and manipulated to suit her needs, I am just sorry that I allowed that to go on. I guess she is emotionally damaged from her split/divorce, we got together only 4 months after she had separated from a 12 year marriage, too early!

Kitkat22 · May 24, 2010, 05:33 AM

Tired.. Good Morning.. Do you know what strikes me the most about you? You are very honest in the way you feel about this situation. That's very good.

I do agree with Talinaman.. Maybe someday you can be friends and it's good you have come to the conclusion there will be no marriage for you two.

It's as homegirl said.. it sometimes takes one longer than the other to get a relationship out of their system.

I do think you're doing the right thing. You are being a gentleman
About this and that's very good of you.

It's time to move on. You two will gradually drift further and further apart and you will finally be able to say; It's over and I don't have any reason to feel guilty.

You seem to have a very good head on your shoulders, but I will warn you of this. Even though your children are close and want to spend time together, DO NOt let her manipulate you by using this as an excuse to keep this going.

My thoughs and prayers are with both of you and your children..
Good Luck and please, let us know how things turn out... Kit

Tired10 · May 24, 2010, 08:12 AM

Kitkat22

Once again thank you for your words, oh and especially the kind ones too!

My realisation of how things were came from reading various things on the internet, the advice on here for instance and also what she says herself. I think she knows that she has issues with relationships now, she is so mad with herself that she can't make that leap in commitment, although in this instance it would now need a lot more than that.

I do not think that she will let things drift, too many lonely nights with too much wine to hand! :D Unless she meets someone else but that same cycle will repeat unless she can change, I think she needs to be alone for some time in order to do that.

It's all weird really when I look at it, how I was on the edge for some weeks and now feel fine & that I still see her.

It does make me sad still for the children but I am in a place where I can cope with that contact, I don't see it as a major issue.

I think what will make that difference in us moving further apart is me maybe distancing myself more and more, or one of us meeting someone else. I am in no rush right now, although I have my urges :) Sorry but you said honesty is the best policy!