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excon · May 9, 2010, 09:16 AM

Hello:

So, here I am watching my favorite Sunday news show on FOX, when Chris Wallace told Juan Williams that if KSM was tried in NY city, he wants HIM to cover it - intimating that it would be a very DANGEROUS place to be...

But, that confuses me. I thought the terrorists hated us because of our freedoms - not because we put them on trial. Let me ask you this; if they hate us NOW, and want to attack us NOW (and they do), how is trying KSM in NY going to make them want to attack us MORE, or hate us MORE then, than they do NOW? I'm missing something. If they're plotting to attack us NOW (and they are), how can they plot HARDER some time later? If they ARE going to hate us MORE then, does that mean they don't hate us very much now? Why is TRYING KSM in NY, going to piss them off MORE than KEEPING him in Gitmo does? I don't understand how that makes us MORE vulnerable.

I'd also question the adage of "emboldening" our enemy by some of the stuff we do... That's a right wing idea. I have the same questions. If the enemy wants to attack us NOW, is he going to want to attack us MORE after he's "emboldened"?? It makes no sense to me. Help me out.

My final question for you, is that in spite of all the right wing bravado from FOX, for the first time I saw that Chris Wallace is actually SCARED. Is that a NY thing? A right wing thing? I'm not scared. Is there something wrong with me?

excon

Catsmine · May 9, 2010, 09:53 AM

I would imagine it has something to do with the riots the Lefties cause whenever they demonstrate. I feel fairly certain the New Yorkers still suffering from chronic bronchitis won't put up with the usual "Free KSM" feces that the U.S.-haters the Left is infested with will spout as they throw rocks and firebombs at the crowd control officers.

excon · May 9, 2010, 10:00 AM

G'morning, Cats:

So, they're afraid of demonstrators? Is that it? Dude! Do you really think there's a lot of leftwingers who want him freed?? You do?? Dude again! I read a lot of left wing stuff, and I haven't come across anybody...

excon

Catsmine · May 9, 2010, 10:06 AM

Originally Posted by excon

G'morning, Cats:

So, they're afraid of demonstrators? Is that it? Dude! Do you really think there's a lot of leftwingers who want him freed??? You do??? Dude again! I read a lot of left wing stuff, and I haven't come across anybody....

excon

Mornin', Ex.

Read that rioters and you got it. There will always be kids that think anything the U.S. does is wrong and evil. You should know that, you installed one at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave.

excon · May 9, 2010, 10:18 AM

Hello again, Cats:

Well, upon due consideration, I ain't buying it. First off, I don't know where these people are. I haven't read about them. I don't think they exist. I think they're a figment of your imagination. But, even if SOME misguided souls were to show up, and there will be SOME (it's NY, remember), that certainly isn't reason enough to abandon the Constitution. Besides, you don't think NY can handle a few kooks? Dude!

Nope. I don't think those are the reasons. I think you really believe that NY will be attacked if the trial is held there. No? Come, you can tell me.

excon

Catsmine · May 9, 2010, 10:56 AM

Do I think jihadists will attack the Apple again? Absolutely. Do I think it will have anything to do with KSM? Not in the slightest.

I also think that there will be protests during the trial and the Lefties will be the violent ones.

tomder55 · May 9, 2010, 11:33 AM

Ex.. spoken like someone who doesn't live or work in NYC.

There is absolutely a security issue in trying KSM in NYC . You know that too . Or maybe you don't... but we just saw a demonstration of the potential .

It would also be an inconvenience bordering on a nightmare .
Do you know that after Faisal Shahzad's attempt there was a driver of a U-Haul rental on the Robert Kennedy Bridge (formerly known as the Tri-borough bridge because it connects 3 boroughs of NYC);who ran from the U-Haul ? This led to a shutdown of the bridge for several hours.
Imagine the security precautions that would be necessary for an extended trial that no doubt would take months to complete.

But even if these weren't an issue I would oppose the KSM trial in any civilian court . Not because I give a damn about perception . It's because he isn't entitled to one. He is entitled to a military tribunal . He planned an executed a sneak attack on the United States with weapons of mass destruction . Since he does not represent a nation ,then he fits the definition of an illegal enemy combattant . They are not entitled to a civilian trial .

Now to address the fear thing . Fear is probably not the best description. But this is my perspective. My wife and daughter were on the observation deck of the twin towers mid August 2001 .My daughter flew on a cross country flight the weekend before 9-11. We had a firefighter from our little village killed in the Twin Towers . My wife taught many children who's parents did not come home that day. Perhaps we were more affected by 9-11 than most of the rest of the country.

My daughter and her friends fequently go down to the Time Square section to do whatever young friends do... hang out ,shop etc. My wife and I went to see The Adams Family Musical the week before the failed attack We strolled past the Minskoff Theater (although the press now calls it the Lion King theater ). It is not hard to imagine the scenario where we could become victims .
I will continue to walk the streets of NY unafraid. But I show greater awareness and alertness to the potential .

Call it fear if you chose . Although I heard rumors of beefed up security at the Space Needle during a WTO protest ;and a picture of the Needle being found in possession of an AQ captured in Afghanistan ,I have not really heard of Seattle being on the wish list of choice targets for Jihadistan.
Frankly I don't get it . NYC being the bastion of liberal blue state tolerance... you would think they'd be going after one of those "righty "states and cities.

excon · May 9, 2010, 11:54 AM

Originally Posted by tomder55

They are not entitled to a civilian trial .

Hello tom:

That's the answer. Traffic, and demonstrators are just subterfuge... But, I wouldn't use the word "entitled" as though it's a get out of jail free card. In fact, it's really the ONLY way we're every going to try him, because those military tribunals ain't working so good. Then he can be sent to supermax where he'll never see sunshine again. Ain't that better than him enjoying all that tropical sun?

The obvious benefit for us, though, is to show the world that we DO adhere to the rule of law. We used to be the beacon of law, but not so much since you guys got your way.

excon

Catsmine · May 9, 2010, 11:55 AM

Originally Posted by tomder55

Frankly I don't get it . NYC being the bastion of liberal blue state tolerance .....you would think they'd be going after one of those "righty "states and cities.

Ease of targets, Tom. In Dallas or Birmingham they'd have a .40 calibre piercing before they got the fuse lit. In Miami it'd be 9mm and the bomb would go off on a Coast Guard cutter 3 days later. Frisco or LA and no one would notice.

tomder55 · May 9, 2010, 12:22 PM

Ex again spoken like someone who doesn't do a daily commute into the narrow streets of the downtown ,Wall Street ,City Hall ,federal court area . Traffic and security are major concerns and would cost the city a bundle.

Here is another concern . You would never find an impartial jury there... impossible!

But I am also right about tribunals . They worked for the Nazis and they would work for KSM.

I don't want him in lock down . I want him to swing.

paraclete · May 9, 2010, 09:48 PM

You guys are amazing, you want to fight terrorism but not on your turf. There is a price and you caught him, so you try him, if not in NY why not gitmo, Oh I forgot, silly me, BO closed it down or there was a rumour to that effect. Have your big soviet era show trial just so when you condemn him it wasn't because you had already made up your mind

speechlesstx · May 10, 2010, 08:25 AM

I thought they hated because we're infidels that support Jews and occupy Muslim lands. No?

excon · May 10, 2010, 08:35 AM

Originally Posted by speechlesstx

I thought they hated because we're infidels that support Jews and occupy Muslim lands. No?

Hello again, Steve:

Then they DON'T hate us because we try them. That's what I've been saying all along. Glad you agree. Then why is Chris Wallace so scared?

excon

speechlesstx · May 10, 2010, 08:48 AM

Originally Posted by excon

Hello again, Steve:

Then they DON'T hate us because we try them. That's what I've been saying all along. Glad you agree. Then why is Chris Wallace so scared?

Yeah, I agree. But, I didn't see Wallace yesterday so I have take your word he's scared.

paraclete · May 10, 2010, 03:33 PM

Originally Posted by speechlesstx

I thought they hated because we're infidels that support Jews and occupy Muslim lands. No?

No, they hate you just because you are you. Haven't you got it yet? You are the modern day personification of the crusaders in their mind, you are invaders from a foreign land, you interfere in their politics and they never know when you might strike against them again. Will you invade Pakistan or Iran as you did Afghanistan and Iraq? Evita made it plain the other day, there are consequences for the nation from which terrorist attacks originate. The Muslims don't really care about the jews, not unless they are Palestinian, but they do care about respect and the US shows a disrespect which is monumental

tomder55 · May 10, 2010, 03:37 PM

Evita made it plain the other day, there are consequences for the nation from which terrorist attacks originate.

Was that an unreasonable position to take ?

I don't think so. State sponsor of these terrorists are the plague of our times. There is no jihadistan without state financing and safe haven.

tomder55 · May 10, 2010, 03:43 PM

No, they hate you just because you are you. Haven't you got it yet? You are the modern day personification of the crusaders in their mind, you are invaders from a foreign land, you interfere in their politics and they never know when you might strike against them again.

Rubbish . You are well versed in the tactics and goals of the modern jihadist . Are the Indians the crusaders too ? How about Aussie kids in a disco ? The goal is the reestablishment of the califate and it's expansion. It has nothing to do with our foreign policy. If we retreated from the ME to fortress America ,they'd still come after us until we accepted the dhimmi status .

paraclete · May 10, 2010, 04:10 PM

Originally Posted by tomder55

rubbish . You are well versed in the tactics and goals of the modern jihadist . Are the Indians the crusaders too ? How about Aussie kids in a disco ? The goal is the reestablishment of the califate and it's expansion. It has nothing to do with our foreign policy. If we retreated from the ME to fortress America ,they'd still come after us until we accepted the dhimmi status .

Tom you know as well as I do Indians are infidels, natural enemies, but they lived in harmony with them before the interference of the British. Do you think they don't hate us as much as you? That's what we get for walking beside you, we are indistinguishable. What muslim can tell the difference between a yank and an aussie without asking where you are from? But I tell you there is a big difference in attitude when they learn you are not a yank. Those kids in Bali were in the wrong place at the wrong time and please note bali is hindu terrirory, the jihadists got more bang for their buck there.

One day Tom you will get real and realise that your foreign policy is at the root of many of the world's problems. Even when you were a fledgling nation you had an expansionist policy and were a problem and nothing has changed today. I think you avoid the lessons the world has learned about you from history and your two hundred years of militarism.http://www.stateofnature.org/usMilitarism.html

tomder55 · May 10, 2010, 05:28 PM

Even when you were a fledgling nation you had an expansionist policy and were a problem and nothing has changed today.

Lol as if Aussie didn't conquer a continent .

paraclete · May 10, 2010, 10:06 PM

Originally Posted by tomder55

Was that an unreasonable position to take ?

I don't think so. State sponsor of these terrorists are the plague of our times. There is no jihadistan without state financing and safe haven.

I don't think so either unless you are one of the millions in that country who don't support terrorism and are victims of it. The US needs to be reminded that they are not the only victims of terrorism and making threats is not helpful. It might not have been unreasonable position but it was a very undiplomatic statement. You want to deal with state financing of jihadism, deal with Saudi Arabia and Iran and support the Israeli's against the Palastinians