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flipmaster · Aug 27, 2009, 03:58 PM

Hi, on August 26, 2009 I was caught shoplifting an excersice peace from Canadian Tire. When I left about 2 minutes later a man walked up to me posing as an undercover loss prevention officer. I was detained and a cop came and took me under her custody, I was real cooperative and helpful. I admitted to what I did and I knew it was wrong I am remorseful and regretful for the actions I have partaken. So she put me under suggestion to the court or something and this is in york region, Ontario, and that she said I might have to pay a small donation or community service. I am worried because I'm a university student at york and the total was about $22.50, also my future job dream is to work in foreign affairs. My question is how serious is my charge, and will it affect my schooling, and what should I do, plead guilty or innocent (the cop suggested I plead guilty). Also I am also worried about having this bull**** on my record because I am a first time offender and I have never done anything negative involving the law. What exactly should I do regarding this mess I put myself under.
Please and thanks.

tickle · Aug 27, 2009, 04:07 PM

flipmaster, I would suggest you trust the leniency of the court and plead guilty, don't try to hide anything. It will go better for you if you don't. Maybe community service and no record. But if you do have a record, even as young as you are, you can forget about your career in foreign affairs in Canada.

Tick

flipmaster · Aug 28, 2009, 08:16 PM

Am I going to be eligible for a program where a first time offender can have the charges dropped and no record kept regarding the actions that took place?The total was about $22.50 and the property was returned and I took blame and was cooperative and helpful.

tanequil · Oct 4, 2009, 12:20 PM

.. any updates?

flipmaster · Oct 4, 2009, 12:23 PM

Got a letter from canadian tire requesting 500 dollars at settlement but I'm pleading guilty in order to get diversion... any advice?

tanequil · Oct 4, 2009, 06:09 PM

Originally Posted by flipmaster

Got a letter from canadian tire requesting 500 dollars at settlement but im pleading guilty in order to get diversion... any advice?

I am not sure.. there are two aspects
- the criminal proceedings - which you are pleeding guilty, so most likely you can get some leniency and proceed through a diversion program.

- the civil action - that is the part when they ask you for $500.. I am not sure if there is a way to get out of it.. . freaking annoying that they can pretty much loot you and there is no way to resolve it.

kumarsingam · Oct 5, 2009, 06:02 AM

I wouldn't plead guilty under the court of law. Instead talk to your crown attorney and take "responsibility" for what you did and ask for diversion. If that doesn't work, hire a good lawyer and he/she should be able to convince the crown.

JudyKayTee · Oct 5, 2009, 06:06 AM

Originally Posted by kumarsingam

I wouldn't plead guilty under the court of law. Instead talk to your crown attorney and take "responsibility" for what you did and ask for diversion. If that doesn't work, hire a good lawyer and he/she should be able to convince the crown.

What does "I wouldn't plead guilty under the court of law" mean?

tickle · Oct 5, 2009, 07:02 AM

Originally Posted by kumarsingam

I wouldn't plead guilty under the court of law. Instead talk to your crown attorney and take "responsibility" for what you did and ask for diversion. If that doesn't work, hire a good lawyer and he/she should be able to convince the crown.

Apparently he doesn't have to plead guilty, he and his g/f were not charged by the police. What do you mean 'take responsibility for what you did' ? He doesn't have to do that either.

Tick

tanequil · Oct 5, 2009, 05:18 PM

Originally Posted by tickle

Apparently he doesnt have to plead guilty, he and his g/f were not charged by the police. What do you mean 'take responsibility for what you did' ? He doesnt have to do that either.

tick

Wrong thread..

flipmaster · Oct 5, 2009, 05:38 PM

What do you all suggest I do then, my court date (first appearence) in Wednesday, October 7, 2009... I basically admitted everything I did and the cop said she would "suggest" me to the crown to do "community service, pay a donation or watch a video." ALSO... the civil claim against me, do I still pay the settlement if I get a diversion or is that up to the judge? (seriously undergoing severe anxiety and nervousness about this issue).

excon · Oct 5, 2009, 06:49 PM

Originally Posted by tanequil

- the civil action - that is the part when they ask you for $500.. i am not sure if there is a way to get out of it.. .. freaking annoying that they can pretty much loot you and there is no way to resolve it.

Originally Posted by flipmaster

ALSO... the civil claim against me, do i still pay the settlement if i get a diversion or is that up to the judge? (seriously undergoing severe anxiety and nervousness about this issue).

Hello flip:

On another thread exactly like yours, I advised tanequil to fight the civil charges, in that I believe they are illegal and unethical. I think you should do the same.

Whatever you decide to do in the civil case, however, should NOT influence, in ANY way shape or form, the criminal case against you. If it does, that's further evidence of the unethical conduct going on.

In addition, I'd argue with his statement above, however, where he says there is no way to resolve it. In MY experience, I've always found the COURTHOUSE to be a pretty good place to resolve it. Both he and you should realize that the government doesn't win all the time.

excon

SomeGuy1980 · Jan 7, 2010, 04:12 PM

There are two different situations at play here that keep getting intertwined. Civil and Criminal proceedings have nothing to do with one another.

The balance of proof is different at each level of court. To be found guilty criminally something has to be proven beyond the shadow of doubt (i.e. there can't be any doubt); to be found liable (notice the difference already) in a civil proceeding there just has to be a balance of probability.

Also note that you keep mentioning the value was "only" $22.50; while that may be the case there isn't a theft under $50.00 situation. Theft is theft regardless of the amount; and you only returned the item when confronted so the intent to commit the crime was there.

You are a first time offender so the criminal court may "slap your wrists"; but that situation doesn't necessarily let you off the hook at the civil level.

If you're a student I imagine you qualify for Ontario Legal Aid. You should utilize that instead of hoping someone here gives you the right answer. While I'm doing a concentration in Law at an undergrad level I'm not a practicing lawyer; and I'm guessing the other people who've posted on this aren't either based on no one even bothering to explain the difference in the two different courts.

SomeGuy1980 · Jan 7, 2010, 04:17 PM

One thing I forgot to mention, if your civil case sees a judge Canadian Tire will have to prove why they're asking for $500.00

While that seems steep; they maybe able to justify it. They can justify that you should have to pay the wages for that Loss Prevention Officer to spend the time watching you, detaining you, then writing up all the reports and possibly showing up in court (and LPO's make anywhere between $11/hr to $22/hr).

Plus every time someone steals something and Canadian Tire has to claim it on their insurance, their premiums go up.

tickle · Jan 7, 2010, 06:04 PM

Old thread, someguy, probably OP has already dealt with his situation.

Tick

JudyKayTee · Jan 7, 2010, 06:04 PM

We may not be Attorneys but we've figured out how to use the site, and that includes both answering the question and editing our own posts so we don't have to post twice.

This site has been unable to find a law/rule/regulation which provides for this type of "restitution." What does your research show? I've personally spoken to two Canadian firms and they disagree on whether the practice is legal and enforceable.

SomeGuy1980 · Jan 7, 2010, 08:35 PM

tickle, you would hope - but the Canadian Justice system isn't always the most quick. I've seen some cases take 2+ years to resolve themselves when you look at both the criminal and civil system.

As for JudyKayTee - did you bother to find out what these supposed firms specialized in? Yes Canadian Law firms actually have specialties as well.

Reply to JudyKayTee:

My comment about practicing lawyers wasn't an attack on the people here; in fact if you bother to read my comment I pointed out that I'm not a practicing lawyer and that he should seek advise from Ontario Legal Aid (which is a free service in Ontario and most universities have a legal aid office attached to them - I know Queen's University and Ottawa University do - as well as Dalhousie; however that's in Halifax).

With an "Expert" such as yourself feeling the need to 'attack' new users - consider my account closed. It's sad to see such close minded people on a site that is supposed to give help to people.

JudyKayTee · Jan 8, 2010, 08:07 AM

You're not the first person to come on strong ("I'm not a practicing lawyer; and I'm guessing the other people who've posted on this aren't either based on no one even bothering to explain the difference in the two different courts"), not be able to explain himself or herself, have nothing to back up his or her post and stalk off, nor will you be the last.

Mr905 · Apr 9, 2010, 04:16 AM

I'm curious what the final result was, what action was taken by OP? The thread seems to have diverted from it's original purpose, if OP is still about I would be curious to know the outcome.

JudyKayTee · Apr 9, 2010, 05:34 AM

Originally Posted by Mr905

I'm curious what the final result was, what action was taken by OP? The thread seems to have diverted from it's original purpose, if OP is still about I would be curious to know the outcome.

OP hasn't been back since October 2009.

When you believe a thread is going off course, report it to a moderator.