[smoothy]

So, you love the Canadian system so much... move to Canada.


But you forfit your right to return here to our system when you find out what its really like.


But oh... you've never actually seen socialized medicine first hand have you? I've going to bet not... and likely never even traveled abroad and certainly never lived where they have it for any amount of time.

Spead more propaganda about a system you know absolutely nothing about... like half of congress is doing... hell the speaker of the House never even read the Bill...

She said... "We need to vote for this bill so you can find out whats in it."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KoE1R-xH5To Got her on video... of course the DNC will claim she never said it.

[NeedKarma]

So, you love the Canadian system so much....move to Canada.

I'm here now!

[smoothy]

I'm here now!

Then exactly why in the hell are you arguing about why WE need the crappy system you have.

I don't have to wait for anything like you do in many cases. WE don't ration care... medicine, or make people wait absurd ammounts of time for treatment.

And your own leaders admit the Canadian system is going to collapse without massive influxes of money.

Don't get me wrong.. Canada isn't a bad place and you have plenty of nice people... but conversely there are things I really dislike about it.

[smoothy]

Actually I have several In-laws in Montreal, I get my input from their experiences under the Canadian system. They aren't happy with it but lack the Money to come south and pay cash. I've only traveled the far eastern part of Canada, I was particularly enamored with Nova Scotia, Prince Edward Island was beautiful but a tad rural for my tastes.

[speechlesstx]

Surely you aren't telling me that you would fall into a gap in the US that 96% of Americans manage to avoid ?

In a logical world Obamacare would be considered major overkill considering those numbers. But then some of us have known all along it was never about providing health care for those who need it.

[paraclete]

You would then find it remarkable that the vast majority of Americans under the current system are not out in the streets and bankrupt even under what Clete mistakenly calls an eighteenth century time warp .

Even the most exagerated numbers that are thrown out there represents no more than 16% of the US population . The new overhaul addresses at best 4% of the US population .

Surely you aren't telling me that you would fall into a gap in the US that 96% of Americans manage to avoid ? Are you so dependent on the state for your existance ? I always saw the Canadian and the Aussie as someone made of rugged sterner stuff and never before saw them as sheeple.

Tom let's address your misquoting of my words, the eighteenth century time wrap refers not to present day health care but the idea that men in the eighteenth century had a ability to define the circumstances that twenty first century man should live under and that therefore a government should not legislate for the welfare of its citizens

16% of a population is a significant number, you are suggesting that you didn't mind if 16% of your population had the potential to be bankrupted by your existing system and that it is even all right if 4% remain at risk just so long as you don't have to help out a little.

I can't speak for Canadians but Australians are made of sterner stuff, in fact so much so that we don't allow our citizens to be placed at risk unnecessarily, we don't shirk our responsibilities to our fellow citizens, but then our founders had a slightly different ethic and a century of hindsight when they founded our Commonwealth, they took the word seriously and our governments have taken it seriously ever since therefore we are not sheeple following blindly after long lost concepts but brumbys running free in the high country of public responsibility

[tomder55]

Your safety net doesn't let anyone through ? I find that difficult to believe .The inherent inefficiency of a bureaucracy tells me that is probably not true.

[paraclete]

your safety net doesn't let anyone through ? I find that difficult to believe .The inherent inefficiency of a bureaucracy tells me that is probably not true.

Perhaps we don't suffer from the same level of inefficiency in bureaucracy, not to say some parts of it aren't inefficient, but we actually do have a safety net on top of the coverage so that when expenses are excessive there is help available, the only people who can fall through the cracks are those who want to be rugged individualists and pay for it themselves
Medicare Safety Net - Medicare Australia
Department of Health and Ageing - Pharmaceutical Benefits Safety Net Arrangements

You see Tom there is a lot to be said for a single payer option, although our system isn't entirely single payer because there is insurance and there may be a gap payment but Medicare picks up most of the tab and either pays the doctor or hospital directly or rebates the cost on presentation of the bill. The insurance companies are free to compete, the doctors are free to compete and the patient gets on with being treated without the hassle

[JoeCanada76]

Montreal is a small city in Quebec. It is not all of canada. So your argument falls flat Tom.

[earl237]

I don't think the Libz have a chance of getting elected. They tried running on a carbon tax last time and fell flat on their face. The new leader isn't much more popular and the Tories are much more in tune with average Canadian's views on issues such as law and order and taxes.

[JoeCanada76]

I don't think the Libz have a chance of getting elected. They tried running on a carbon tax last time and fell flat on their face. The new leader isn't much more popular and the Tories are much more in tune with average Canadian's views on issues such as law and order and taxes.

Very true.

[logan176]

Personally I don't know a lot about Canadian healthcare except what you see in the TV ads. And we should all know by now that if it's in a TV ad, it's probably a lie or some exaggerated far-stretched version of the truth.

Does this mean I support Obama, God no! I have spoken with a friend who used to live in England and she loves the universal healthcare system there. But how do they pay for it? 17.5% sales tax!

[JoeCanada76]

Would rather pay higher taxes.. Then worry about not having health care coverage.

[logan176]

17.5% might not seem like a lot for a pack of gum or a pair of shoes, but just think about buying a car! 17.5% on a $20k vehicle is $3500! Taxes on a $300k home... $52,500!!

[paraclete]

Does this mean I support Obama, God no! I have spoken with a friend who used to live in England and she loves the universal healthcare system there. But how do they pay for it? 17.5% sales tax!

All these things are relative, you have to look at the entire tax system and what they get in return. I could complain that a person in the US is taxed less than I am if I just look at the rates but then I don't need to buy expensive health insurance, but actually a person in the US isn't taxed less than I am because I haven't paid income tax in years. This doesn't mean I'm not taxed

[JoeCanada76]

That is England, not Canada. Plus each province has different tax rates.

[smoothy]

Would rather pay higher taxes.. Then worry about not having health care coverage.

So.. you would rather Politicians determine if you get a treatment or not, rather than your Doctor?

Incidentally, can you name a single Federal agency that is efficient, responsive. And isn't a black hole for tax dollars. And can you name a federal agency that MAKES more money than they cost?


Sorry, I've spent an inordinate amount of time in and around Government entities and fascilities the last 25 years. Nobody that has seen what I have seen can look at ANY of them as being capable of fixing their own problems much less everyone else's too.

[NeedKarma]

So..you would rather Politicians determine if you get a treatment or not, rather than your Doctor?

I can say with 100% certainty that you have no idea how our system operates.

[smoothy]

I can say with 100% certainty that you have no idea how our system operates.

SO your government has NOTHING to do with your health care system... and they don't impose any rationing at all, has NOTHING at all to do with who works in any part of it... yet SOMEHOW its nationalized and taxed by the Canadian Government, is that what the Canadian News tells you?

[NeedKarma]

SO your government has NOTHING to do with your health care system....

But that's not what you wrote is it. Here you chose to write something else and make that the argument. One cannot continue discussions with you if you continuously do this.