[Lucky098]

Last night, a co-worker and I got into an interesting conversation. My co-worker is a self-proclaimed Buddhist/vegetarian. A lot of people at work give him crap about it and tease him. I asked him in a joking manner if he was opposed to meat eating animals such as lions. He said no, but the conversation of feeding both cats or dogs a vegetarian meal came up.

He claimed it was OK to feed a dog or cat a vegetarian kibbled meal. He claims that you can get all the protein from veggies that you can get from meat. And also said that the animals would be OK since it is kibbled.

I do know that cats need more protein in their diets then dogs do, but I thought this was absurd. Dogs and cats both are carnivores, I know dogs will eat some veggies in their diets, but not a diet consisting of just that.

Are there any side effects to meat eating animals eating vegetarian diets?

This person doesn't own any animals, but he also said he wasn't against feeding lower quality food, such as Beneful, Pedigree and so forth. He said it was the same as smoking a cigarette. I tried to explain to him that humans have the choice of smoking, but pets only get what they're given. He seemed to have gotten upset with my answers and left our break room early.

I'd be interested in knowing everyone's opinion on a Vegetarian diet for either cats or dogs.

[artlady]

I have owned many dogs and I think they would give me the look or flip me the paw if I tried to give them veggies,exclusively anyway.
It can be done but I believe they have to have supplements as well to answer all their dietary needs.
I would also like to add that green beans have been known to be very effective for dogs with seizures.I believe one of our members found it very helpful for her dog who suffered.

[teachnk]

I am NOT a vegetarian, but over a number of years my dog built up allergies to every possible meat my vet could recommend. Eventually (at age 6) he had to go on a vegetarian kibble by Nature's Recipe. He stayed on that diet until his death at 15 1/2 and never had another rash or reaction again. So it definitely worked for him! :)

[Lucky098]

I totally understand if there is medical reasons behind it... but to do it just because?? I don't know... I just thought it was an interesting topic.

[JudyKayTee]

What is a self-proclaimed Budhist/vegetarian? I was a vegetarian for a number of years following viewing a slaughterhouse video.

At any rate - I have friends who are still vegetarian. Their animals are also vegetarian. They don't have any health problems caused by their diet.

I have a GSD with severe allergies - the Vet has recommended a meatless diet for her although I admit that I do sometimes give her chicken or roast beef. It appears that your co-worker has a vegetarian household and that is the reason for the dog's vegetarian diet as opposed to "just because."

If your mindset is that one animal should not eat another you don't feed other animals to your dog. I believe you said you work at PetSmart. Why would employees give the vegetarian a hard time? (If you can speak for them)

[Lucky098]

Oh! I haven't worked at petsmart in years... I work in an office now... Its mostly the guys who are giving him a hard time about it. I guess it's a "man thing" lol I really don't care... He said something yesterday, I forget, that brought this conversation up. Like I said... I understand if its for medical reasons... but animals are designed to eat meat... And they should eat meat... I do know that cats need more protein in his diet...

Self-proclaimed Buddhist/vegetarian... Hes doing it because his girlfriend is. He might be serious about it... I don't know... He's not a very nice person... I guess I"m under the impression that Buddhists are loving people and are "one" with nature... I don't know

[JudyKayTee]

Oh! I havent worked at petsmart in years... I work in an office now... Its mostly the guys who are giving him a hard time about it. I guess its a "man thing" lol I really dont care... He said something yesterday, I forget, that brought this convo up. Like I said... I understand if its for medical reasons... but animals are designed to eat meat... And they should eat meat... I do know that cats need more protein in his diet...

Self-proclaimed Buddhist/vegetarian... Hes doing it b/c his girlfriend is. He might be serious about it... I dont know... He's not a very nice person... I guess I"m under the impression that Buddhists are loving people and are "one" with nature... I dunno

This is the same argument I heard when I was vegetarian - that I was "designed" to eat meat. Never sounded valid to me.

As far as "converting" to please his girlfriend - I sure do get your point!

[FlyYakker]

Dogs are omnivores, to some degree at least, and may be able to get by on just veggies.

Cats are much more dedicated carnivores and I suspect a pure veggie diet would require some supplements for a really healthy life.

Whtever the facts, no humane person would limit their pets diet without first ensuring that the diet is adequate by the pet's standard, not just by human standards.

[Lucky098]

That's my thinking as well. It shouldn't matter what the person considers healthy... The pet should be fed the required foods that will maintain a healthy life. If a vegetarian diet is what keeps a dog or cat alive, then by all means... But to feed a dog or cat a vegetarian diet just because that person doesn't believe in eating meat... I just don't see that as being right in my opinion.

I do realize that a lot of the raw or barf diets do require veggies... but, its not JUST veggies.

And I guess the thing that really caught my attention, is the fact that this guy said that it was a choice... It's a choice for him, the animal doesn't have a choice. They eat what they are given, whether its good for them, bad for them, pure meat diet, veggie diet... But its not the pets choice. I guess that kind of thinking just makes me wonder...

[Alty]

Lucky, I do feed my dogs meat, but having said that, I've done a lot of research on dog diets. I started researching because I found it fascinating when my vet recommended green beans for our epileptic labrador. He was on meds that made him tired, sick, not the same dog. Our vet recommended green beans and since we've started feeding them to him, he's been seizure free, since 2001!

The reason most people are so shocked that someone would feed only veggies to a dog, is because we believe that all dogs should eat meat. They do in the wild, so they should in captivity. That thinking isn't sound.

Dogs in the wild need the extra fat that meat provides. Think about it, these animals have to provide for themselves. They dig a shelter, they hunt, they defend their territory, they bear many more young then our domesticated dogs. Still, even with a meat rich diet, most of these dogs don't have even half the life span of our domesticated breeds.

I'm not a vegetarian, I love meat too much. I do hate how the animals are treated, but, I love meat. Having said that, if you have a balanced diet of vegetables, you get just as much protein, even more then a meat eater.

So, a veggie eating dog, in my opinion, is just as healthy as a meat eater. Also, too many people don't exercise their dogs enough. A dog with a veggie diet will be naturally more trim and fit then a meat eating dog.

As for the pets choice you talk about. Do your really think that your pets choose to eat the food you buy? Have you ever tried it? It's not good. They eat it because they're hungry. Hunger is a great motivator. ;)

[JudyKayTee]

That's my thinking as well. It shouldn't matter what the person considers healthy... The pet should be fed the required foods that will maintain a healthy life. If a vegetarian diet is what keeps a dog or cat alive, then by all means... But to feed a dog or cat a vegetarian diet just because that person doesnt believe in eating meat... I just dont see that as being right in my opinion.

I do realize that a lot of the raw or barf diets do require veggies.... but, its not JUST veggies.

And I guess the thing that really caught my attention, is the fact that this guy said that it was a choice... Its a choice for him, the animal doesnt have a choice. They eat what they are given, whether its good for them, bad for them, pure meat diet, veggie diet... But its not the pets choice. I guess that kind of thinking just makes me wonder.....

How do you see a vegetarian diet for dogs as "just keeping them alive"? Have you done any research at all on the subject? I find nothing indicating that dogs (and this is the dog board; I have no idea where feeding a vegetarian diet to cats came into the conversation nor do I know anything about vegetarian diets for cats) MUST eat meat to be happy/healthy or are DESIGNED to eat only meat.

My dogs are not vegetarians. They also don't get a choice of what they eat. They eat what I choose to feed them. I'm not buying your argument on that basis.

[Lucky098]

I'm not trying to start an argument. The only things I have ever been taught about dogs on vegetarian diets was for obese dogs and dogs who can't eat the meat based kibbles.

I know dogs don't get to choose what they want to eat.. If it were up to a dog, I'm sure a stinky, rotting fish would be a fantastic find! However; people who are trying to please their dogs will go through food after food to find what the dog likes. My dogs hate Innova EVO but love the regular Innova large bites... go figure. And I do know that a lot of the higher end foods have a mixture of freeze dried (or blended in the kibble) fruits and veggies... so taking veggies completely out of the diet isn't an option either... just like I know the raw and barf diets include veggies as well.

Just thought this would be a good topic to talk to dog people about seeing as how my co-worker doesn't even own a dog, and... I don't know too much about the veggie diet for dogs...


As for the green beans... I have also heard that green beans are a good filler for dogs that are obsessed over food and seem to never get their fill. I haven't tried it yet, but that was what I was told... That's interesting about the seizure thing though.. I was unaware.

[JudyKayTee]

There is something else that Alty recommended for skin problems that worked. She'll be back to tel lus what it was.

I know something about veggie diets because I spent some years in animal rescue, specifically, dogs.

Unfortunately (and I'm not trying to start an argument either) when I see something about a vegetarian diet "just keeping dogs alive" I, who fed a veggie diet, who researched the subject and talked to Vets, see red! That's not info; that's an opinion - and you are entitled to yours, just as I am entitled to mine.

I think that's one thing we can agree on.

[Alty]

I could write a list of veggies that help dogs with numerous problems. Mother nature is smart, she made a plant for everything, and dogs in the wild know what to eat to remain healthy. It's the dogs in our homes that rely on us, and really, even if you buy the most expensive dog food on the market, we're still feeding them crap.

I said it before, I'll say it again. Dogs in the wild eat meat for the fat and protein. If they didn't, they'd starve. With the work they have to do, the number of pups they have in a lifetime, they wouldn't make it on veggies alone.

The dogs in our households don't need as much fat, unless they're working dogs, outdoor dogs.

I do give my dogs a meat based kibble, there are veggies in it and I add more. Green beans for all three, because they do more then just prevent seizures for our lab. They love it.

I also add a teaspoon of vegetable oil to every meal because we live in Canada, it's cold and dry here. Without the oil my dogs get skin problems, dry skin, itching, infection. The oil helps.

Veggies are mother natures medication. That's my opinion, based on the research I've done.

[JudyKayTee]

I've had a rough day at work followed by, well, you know. Pass me a scotch and green beans.

[Alty]

I've had a rough day at work followed by, well, you know. Pass me a scotch and green beans.

Green beans I have, scotch I don't. Would you settle for a beer?

[JudyKayTee]

No. I have scotch. I don't have green beans. We must move closer together.

Love you, girlfriend!

[Alty]

No. I have scotch. I don't have green beans. We must move closer together.

Love you, girlfriend!

Right back at you girl. :)

I'd definitely share my green beans with you. Actually, Indy would share his green beans with you. ;)

[shazamataz]

I don't really have much to add to this sorry but I will add that I don't believe in a vegetarian diet for dogs.
I have my reasons... they may or may not be valid but they make sense to me.

If I gave my dog a big plate of vegetables they would look at me and go "what the heck is this?"
If I gave them a big plate of chicken and beef they would love me forever.

It's not just the nutritional value of veggies vs meat but what the dog likes.

[Alty]

I do agree that my dogs love meat more then veggies Shaz, but the OP's friend is a vegetarian that lives a vegetarian lifestyle, so the dog in question would never have know any different, won't know what he/she is missing.

If you never had chocolate in your life, you wouldn't crave it.

Am I making any sense? ;)