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abarsoom · Jan 4, 2010, 02:21 PM

So let me simply lay out my dilemma -
- Upstairs bathroom remodel of a duplex built in 1929
- Waste line is lead
- Need to raise the floor around toilet area approximately 1 1/2 "
- Currently the flange (brass) has lead peaned in place
- After removing flange/ raising floor, not an over excess of lead line available to work
with (like nada)
- Do not/ can not change out line without MAJOR effort/ expense
- Offset is 16" from finished back wall

First, can I use a cast iron offset and a 14" rough in toilet to make this all work?

Are there any better ideas or solutions?

How do I deal with marrying a cast iron flange with lead pipe (offset or not) considering needing to raise the floor 1 1/2"?

ALL help appreciated!

Thanks

mygirlsdad77 · Jan 4, 2010, 04:56 PM

I hate to say it, but I really think you are going to have to access the toilet drain from below floor and replace the closet bend and flange. I suggest using a stainless steel shielded adapter clamp to connect from (most likely cast iron) to pvc for new bend and flange. Hope one of the other pros here can give you an easier fix, but I think this is going to be your only real fix.

speedball1 · Jan 4, 2010, 05:10 PM

Dad nailed it! You're going to hafta transition from lead to PVC. Can you get to it from the bottom? Let me know and we'll take it from there. Tom

massplumber2008 · Jan 4, 2010, 05:10 PM

Hi all...

I think MGD77 (Hi Lee) has stated the obvious very well... looks like you are going to have to break open the floor or the ceiling to fix this... *OUCH*.

The only last ditch thought that comes to my mind.. AND ITS PRETTY DOUBTFUL THIS WILL WORK... is that you could try to find a TWIST AND SET closet flange (see 1st image) and see if it will squeeze down into the lead pipe in a manner that is water-tight when you flush. In order to check for tightness I think you'll have to open the ceiling up no matter what you do to be sure that the twist and set flange worked.

They also make a closet flange with 3 screws (see 2nd image). This is another flange that allows you to insert it into a pipe and then using the screws pull up on the flange in a way that it expands a neoprene ring against the walls of the pipe. It may work here... hard to say, and you would still need to open up the ceiling to check for water tightness during flushing.

You can try these and they may work for awhile if you don't split the lead installing them, but in the long run I would recommend that you do this right and pipe it from cast to PVC as MGD recommended. I would hate to see this be a big issue for you someday at a difficult time for you... swear how it always works out!

The only way to move the toilet closer to the wall will be to rip out the drain and repipe PVC... period!

Finally, exactly how long is the lead pipe before it connects into the cast iron... let me know... may have one more option.

Let us know if you want to discuss more... OK?

MARK

mygirlsdad77 · Jan 4, 2010, 05:21 PM

Hi Mark. Great advice. I haven't ever used a twist and set on lead, so I didn't even think of it as an option, good call. My only concern is that abarsoom is looking for an offset flange( honestly I don't know if they make an offset twist and set, never seen one). From what I gather, he is saying his flange is (center to wall) 16 inches, which makes me think the only way to make it right is to redo the whole shebang. Unless there is such a thing as an offset twist and set, in which case, it may be the solution if he uses a 14 rough toilet.

massplumber2008 · Jan 4, 2010, 05:23 PM

Funny Lee... while you were writing I noticed the offset issue and updated my posting to reflect that fact (go rereadit). Check the time stamp on my last edited... about 4 minutes after you posted. Good points for sure!

Thanks... MARK

mygirlsdad77 · Jan 4, 2010, 05:31 PM

I reread your post. And once again, it's the best possible answer that could be given. Now we just wait for abarsoom. Take care all. Lee.

massplumber2008 · Jan 4, 2010, 05:34 PM

I don't know about that Lee... ;) I just wanted to provide some kind of option to try in terms of at least connecting the toilet to the drain. I doubt it will work and in the end I'm still not sure on my answer as I think it may just lead to confusion, disapointment, and extra work for Abarsoom... but still wated to try.

You helped me to explain my concerns even further so thank you!

Good night!

mygirlsdad77 · Jan 4, 2010, 05:34 PM

Mark, on a side note, what was the other option if lead pipe was long enough(or short enough).

massplumber2008 · Jan 4, 2010, 05:36 PM

If lead pipe was long enough I was thinking he could use an inside pipe cutter and cut the lead back to the brass ferrule.. then could convert to PVC using a fernco clamp (only time I use them is with lead pipe or underground), but most likely there would not be enough room for an offset flange.

He would still need to open the ceiling either way.

mygirlsdad77 · Jan 4, 2010, 05:52 PM

Thanks, we are on the same page

abarsoom · Jan 5, 2010, 04:05 PM

Thanks for all the support guys! I appreciate the thoughts.
After all the comments I think my best option is to simply demo the existing old and worn tile floor
And then re-plumb to the old cast iron drain line.

I was hoping not to do that (11/2" of old concrete with embedded metal mesh underneath old old tile, then the 3/4" pine sub-floor - royal pain in the )

My original plan was to leave the floor (still in decent structural shape just all the enamel is worn off the tile) use self leveling concrete to skim the floor and then relay new tile... just got to go a little further that's all!

Sometimes being a landlord sucks...

All additional advice welcomed! Thanks.