[juboy]

What defines a church in a court of law

[Fr_Chuck]

In what country and if in the US what state.

And for what purpose, for tax exempt in the US, or to ordain a pastor to marry someone??

Normally regulared scheduled meetings for the purpose of their religious faith

[excon]

Hello ju:

In the United States, a church CANNOT be defined in a court of law... The First Amendment to the Constitution says that the government cannot "establish" a religion... Therefore, it cannot say which religion IS a real religion, and which religion is NOT. If it did, it would be "establishing" the ones that passed muster. Clearly, the government can't do that. In fact, the term "real religion", is a misnomer, because ANY religion is this country, is a "real religion". That's so, simply because the government can't tell it that it's not.

excon

[Fr_Chuck]

But the IRS does define what they will list as a church for tax exempt reasons

[excon]

Hello again,

The FIRST sentence in the tax books dealing with churches, says "churches are exempt from taxes".

Additionally, it should be understood, that simply because there's a passage in the Constitution outlawing a particular practice, it does NOT mean that the practice doesn't occur with regularity...

Therefore, the Padre is absolutely correct. The IRS WILL define what a church IS, IF one submits an application to the IRS for permission to BE exempt...

MY reading of the tax code, however, is that churches ARE exempt in the FIRST instance, and don't need the governments permission to BE exempt. That's certainly so, especially given that the government is precluded from "establishing" a religion in the first place.

Indeed, upon receipt of such an application, how could the government possibly determine WHICH church should GET the exemption and which ones shouldn't? Well, of course, they can't...

Consequently, there ARE operating churches in this country, who ARE churches simply because they declare themselves to be so, and are not a "licensed" (for lack of a better word) church. The Universal Life Church would be the best known example.

As long as THOSE churches exemptions aren't challenged, they're law.

excon

[Fr_Chuck]

You did not get ordained by the ULC did you excon, or is that Rev Excon? Or Rabbi Excon?

Churches are exempt automatically until they start getting over a certain amount of money. Also if your church ever wants grants from foundations or the federal government they will require a letter from the IRS reconising your church.

Also you may be required by your STATE to meet certain standards.

There was a "pastor" in TN charged a few years back for illegally doing weddings because they did not have a "church" TN requires that there be a scheduled meeting at specific places.

My own church, I have refused grant and federal money because of all of the strings attached to it.

You may create a church and teach and preach almost anything you want, but it is when you want to be tax exempt or get grant money, that is where the defining comes in.

[excon]

you did not get ordained by the ULC did you excon, or is that Rev Excon ?? or Rabbi Excon ??

Hello Padre:

Yes, Padre. I too, am a man of the cloth.. I think I outrank you though. I'm the Monsignor in the Eye of the Pope Church. It's based upon our fearless leader Popeye, who left us with the loving words, "I yam what I yam, and that's all that I yam".

Monsignor excon

[galveston]

My own belief is that a church should NEVER accept any "government" money.

That would be inconsistent with the teaching that the church is the "body of Christ".

Christ does not depend on human government.

[Fr_Chuck]

Hello Padre:

Yes, Padre. I too, am a man of the cloth.. I think I outrank you though. I'm the Monsignor in the Eye of the Pope Church. It's based upon our fearless leader Popeye, who left us with the loving words, "I yam what I yam, and that's all that I yam".

monsignor excon

So do you use spinach for communion then?

[Fr_Chuck]

My own belief is that a church should NEVER accept any "government" money.

That would be inconsistent with the teaching that the church is the "body of Christ".

Christ does not depend on human government.

Sadly without grant money it is hard to operate homeless shelters, food kitchens and food banks.

[galveston]

Sadly without grant money it is hard to operate homeless shelters, food kitchens and food banks.

And could that be because such a small percentage of "Christians" support the work of the Lord with their tithe?

Even so, still a lot can be done.

The Assemblies of God have a first-response ministry called [U]Convoy of Hope.[U] It is a global ministry that provides food, water, blankets, midical supplies, etc after natural disasters, and is often the first on the scene. You don't hear about this in the news media, but it is substantial, and supported by voluntary contributions, as far as I know.

I suppose other organizations have similar ministries.

[Athos]

My own belief is that a church should NEVER accept any "government" money.

That would be inconsistent with the teaching that the church is the "body of Christ".

Christ does not depend on human government.

Galveston, by virtue of tax exemption, almost all churches (FrChuck a possible exception based on his post) accept government money. When the revenues of a Church exceed their expenses (which they must do to survive), churches are not taxed on the excess revenues, which is called "profit". This privilege is granted by the government.

excon - your read on the First Amendment is right on.

[excon]

so do you use spinach for communion then ??

Hello again, Padre:

We DO use a green leafy substance, kind of like spinach... But, kind of not.

excon