[excon]

Hello clete:

I promise you, OUR illegal aliens don't risk dying in the desert, getting shot by right wing vigilantes, or getting arrested and deported by the Border Patrol, simply to get food stamps.

If there were no jobs, they wouldn't come.

excon

[inthebox]

You also forgot those on the Mexican side that abuse these people, the amount the drugs and crime involved.


G&P

[paraclete]

Well, if you cannot "just allow these people to land on your coast", then maybe you need to be a little more "heartless."

The reasons we cannot just allow these people to land on our coast are as compelling as not allowing them to drift about the Indian Ocean in leaky boats. The places they might reach are dangerous with massive tides, in some places inhabited by salt water crocodile, generally uninhabited and devoid of food and water. You have no doubt seen "Survivor", so place those people in similar circumstances without any form of support.

What the people smugglers typically do to take them to a place called Ashmore Reef which is not an Island or even an atoll and then hope that our navy will find and arrest them giving them access to the mainland, What we do is sink their boat and take them 1,000 miles back across the Indian Ocean to Christmas Island. There they are subject to health and identity checks and incarcerated until a place is found for them or they are returned to their country of origin

[phlanx]

The reasons why we cannot just allow these people to land on our coast are as compelling as not allowing them to drift about the Indian Ocean in leaky boats. the places they might reach are dangerous with massive tides, in some places inhabited by salt water crocodile, generally uninhabited and devoid of food and water. You have no doubt seen "Survivor", so place those people in similar circumstances without any form of support.

What the people smugglers typically do to take them to a place called Ashmore Reef which is not an Island or even an atoll and then hope that our navy will find and arrest them giving them access to the mainland, What we do is sink their boat and take them 1,000 miles back across the Indian Ocean to Christmas Island. There they are subject to health and identity checks and incarcerated until a place is found for them or they are returned to their country of origin

I don't see anything wrong with that idea, if an immigrant is genuine about assylum then surely, a place that has a roof, food, medical care and assistance must seem like a dream in comparison

Unfortunately in the EU we are no longer allowed to provide such facilities, instead they can mingle around society while their applications are processed, which is just stupid!

And what caused this - Human Rights Act - something that works well only half the time

[paraclete]

I dont see anything wrong with that idea, if an immigrant is genuine about assylum then surely, a place that has a roof, food, medical care and assistance must seem like a dream in comparison

Unfortunatly in the EU we are no longer allowed to provide such facilities, instead they can mingle around society while their applications are processed, which is just stupid!

And what caused this - Human Rights Act - something that works well only half the time

Ah, yes, the doo-gooders, know them well. You can't lock anyone up because you might damage their little psyches. This is what comes of allowing third world countries into the UN you get third world thinking. I think the West should seriously think about closing their borders for a year. That would give them time to process all the no hopers they have already accumulated and play catchup with housing, etc. I could see our unemployment being halved in no time. I think we could do very well with that one, anchor a ship at Christmas Island and when it's full a little sea voyage would do wonders for international relations we could stop at Colombo, Mumbai, Karachi, Basra, Mogadishu

[tomder55]

Hello clete:

I promise you, OUR illegal aliens don't risk dying in the desert, getting shot by right wing vigilantes, or getting arrested and deported by the Border Patrol, simply to get food stamps.

If there were no jobs, they wouldn't come.

Excon

And of course you can document all those cases of right wing vigilantes gunning down illegals.

[Synnen]

Hello clete:

I promise you, OUR illegal aliens don't risk dying in the desert, getting shot by right wing vigilantes, or getting arrested and deported by the Border Patrol, simply to get food stamps.

If there were no jobs, they wouldn't come.

excon

Yet---what are they doing once they HAVE those jobs to help fix their country of origin?

Absolutely nothing!

If Mexico is REALLY so horrible to its people, and the poverty so awful, and the government that corrupt--why don't we just give all of the illegal immigrants a GUN, and tell them to go after their OWN government to fix things?

[excon]

Hello Synn:

If your family was hungry, and you saw the help wanted sign just over that line, would you join a political party to fight for justice at home, or would you go get a job?

excon

[Synnen]

Hello Excon:

First off--why do you HAVE a family that you can't afford to feed? That sounds like poor personal planning, if you ask me.

Secondly--fine. Go to the help wanted sign--but do it LEGALLY.

Thirdly--leave your family there and send them money.

Fourthly--if the people who are hungry and unhappy in a country aren't willing to fix their OWN country, but just run away from the problem, why should we help? If they came to us and said "this isn't right, we need help to FIX it", that would be one thing, and that would be a GOOD thing. But they don't. They say "I'm hungry and my family is hungry, and screw fixing anything--I'm gonna go get that job in a country where my family can get cheap to free housing, medical care, and man--I can afford to have MORE kids this way! The way I'm going to help things in my home country (which I'm not willing to lose my citizenship to, or the culture that came from there) is to send for my cousin Harry, and his wife and kids, because I can get them a job and they can stay with us until they find their own place".

Yeah... that's really fixing things in the country they came from.

[excon]

and of course you can document all those cases of right wing vigilantes gunning down illegals.

Hello tom:

Not yet. But, I CAN document them sitting there with their guns waiting for a Mexican to cross their path.

excon

[excon]

First off--why do you HAVE a family that you can't afford to feed? That sounds like poor personal planning, if you ask me.

Secondly--fine. Go to the help wanted sign--but do it LEGALLY.

Hello again, Synn:

That isn't a question you would ask if you understood poverty in the third world. But, even if it was poor planning, so what? All they want is a job to make up for the poor planning, IF there was any.

Uhh.. They don't bring their families. The desert ain't easy, and they ain't dumb. Then you go on about all that political BS that a hungry family doesn't care about. You just want to make a political point.

Uhhh. Poor Mexicans CAN'T get permission to immigrate. It's NOT like it is here.

excon

PS> (edited) Why don't we punish the guy with the help wanted sign. I don't think they'd come here if they couldn't find work, do you?

[inthebox]

Hello tom:

Not yet. But, I CAN document them sitting there with their guns waitin for a Mexican to cross their path.

excon

Then do so - link us.

Meanwhile, it is easy to document the CRIMINALS, the illegal alien gangs in our prisons.

Testimony | Heather Mac Donald: Immigration and the Alien Gang Epidemic: Problems and Solutions

I know that the vast majority of Mexican illegal aliens are hard working people looking to improve their lot in life, but do you think they are all like that? Do you ignore the facts that illegal immigration contributes to crimes here in the US?


G&P

[paraclete]

Hey guys
Before this thread gets totally highjacked
It looks like the Indonesians have solved the problem in the usual way.

Reports suggest that they robbed a boat load of asylum seekers and then later shot the boat up. It seems they couldn't handle the pressure or perhaps it was they were in on the deal all along and the present spotlight means their little game is over
Asylum seekers shot over bribe - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

Or perhaps it is that they have been taking advice from someone on this board

Sri Lankan asylum seekers

I now expect we will begin to see a significant reduction in the traffic of people in the Timor Sea and the Indian Ocean

[ETWolverine]

Always laughable when you see people describing the very actions that made such people as Martin Luther king and Gandhi great - are the refugees doing anything different?

Yes... MLK and Gandhi didn't break the law. They protested, and they created civil disturbance, but they didn't break any laws. These refugees could make a very good and strong political statement without breaking any laws and still obeying the orders of the naval officials.

Anybody who is willing to risk their lives in the pursuit of a different life needs assistance

That's an assumption that I'm not willing to accept. Drug lords "risk their lives" all the time in order to "pursue a different life" than the one they had growing up. That isn't something that we need to assist. People who risk their lives to LEGALLY change their lives need assistance. Those who BREAK THE LAW don't.

I'm happy to grant refugee status to anyone who legitimately needs it. But if your first act in the country from which you are requesting asylum is to break the laws and disobey the orders of those you are asking assylum from, do you really deserve our compassion? If I was asking a cop for help and he told me to get out of my car so that he could see that I didn't pose a threat to him, I'd get out of my car. I wouldn't disobey his very simple order and demand that he help me anyway.

Elliot

[excon]

Then do so - link us. Do you ignore the facts that illegal immigration contributes to crimes here in the US?

Hello again, in:

NewsHour Extra: Civilian Militia Patrol U.S.-Mexico Border -- April 6, 2005

I don't ignore what you present as fact. I reject it outright. Unless of course, you too can provide a link. Excluding the fact that BEING an illegal alien IS a crime, I maintain that illegal immigrants don't commit any more crime than citizens do.

excon

[Synnen]

Excluding the fact that BEING an illegal alien IS a crime, I maintain that illegal immigrants don't commit any more crime than citizens do.

There's MY problem with it. It IS a crime. I don't care if you're Mexican, Indonesian, Canadian, French, British, or Martian--or anything ELSE, either!

If THEY get one free chit for committing a crime, I want MINE. And I'm going to use mine to sterilize stupid people somehow in an entire state--and I want to get away with it SCOT FREE because stupid people oppress me and cause me undue stress--and my tax dollars are supporting too many of them having kids.

[ETWolverine]

Hello again, in:

NewsHour Extra: Civilian Militia Patrol U.S.-Mexico Border -- April 6, 2005

I don't ignore what you present as fact. I reject it outright. Unless of course, you too can provide a link. Excluding the fact that BEING an illegal alien IS a crime, I maintain that illegal immigrants don't commit any more crime than citizens do.

excon

That's sort of like saying that except for being murderers, murderers don't commit any more crime than non-criminals do.

100% of illegal aliens are criminals. 100% of them are committing a crime. That is a fact that cannot be denied. Therefore, they are committing crime at a higher rate than the rest of the population. That fact can also not be denied.

Elliot

[excon]

There's MY problem with it. It IS a crime. I don't care if you're Mexican, Indonesian, Canadian, French, British, or Martian--or anything ELSE, either!

If THEY get one free chit for committing a crime, I want MINE.

Hello again, Synn:

Or, we could change the law. That makes more sense. We criminalized marijuana wrongly, too. We're fixing that now. Plus, I agree with you that making foolish stuff against the law foments a healthy disrespect for the law.

But, I want to know what you're so angry at them for, unless you believe (aside from their immigration status) that they're bad people... They're NOT bad people. If you stay in a motel, they make your bed. They wash your dishes if you eat in restaurants. They pick your lettuce, and they'll make you a fine Mexican dinner if they work hard enough to open a restaurant..

excon

[Synnen]

I don't think they're bad people--and I agree that immigration law needs to change.

What I do NOT like about a lot of immigrants, though, is that they expect the country they are immigrating to, to accommodate their culture and language, rather than adapting to the culture and language that is already here. I DO hate the "para espanol" on customer service lines. I DO hate that some schools in the south teach in Spanish, instead of expecting Spanish-speaking students to learn English. I DO hate that Muslims are demanding foot washing stations and prayer rooms in public buildings--the last, though, because church and state should be separate, completely.

It's all well and good to move to a country to have a better life--and we all know that for a lot of immigrants, they're moving from a 3rd world attitude to a first world attitude, whether they're going to Australia, Britain, France, Canada, the US, wherever. But if you're going someplace to have a better life---don't you think you should try to adapt to the country you're moving TO, instead of asking them to adapt to you?

And really--if these countries that they're coming from are so awful, then why isn't the United Nations--or SOMEONE!--not stepping up and helping them to develop? If Mexico is so awful, why isn't the US going THERE and helping overthrow their despot of a government instead of being around the world in Iraq? Is it because they don't have oil we can take, or what?

I still stand by my solution to the whole thing: If that many people in a country want to go to a DIFFERENT country---and so many going to the SAME country--then why not appeal to that country to just annex you? I'd have NO problem annexing Mexico, running under US laws, and developing the country in such a manner that it actually helped the local citizens---rather than having illegal immigrants that do not contribute to the system.

[excon]

I'd have NO problem annexing Mexico, running under US laws, and developing the country in such a manner that it actually helped the local citizens---rather than having illegal immigrants that do not contribute to the system.

Hello again, Synn:

I couldn't agree more. In addition to what you say, if our borders were oceans, it'd make it lot easier to secure 'em. I think we should do Canada too.

excon