[CorinnaMM47]

What is the proper way to install a new vinyl shower pan? Is it wrong to screw through the pan and cement into the marine board on the wall side? Won't that cause leaks eventually? I read that nothing should be screwed in below 8" of the bottom of the wall. And is there a special screw that needs to be used with marine board?

Also, what kind of tape and compound must be used on the marine board around the shower? I was told that spackle tape and spackle will not allow the thin-set to fully adhere to the wall and could cause the tile to be "peeled " off. I get different answers from everyone I ask!! Help!!

[ballengerb1]

Most pans come with the recommended installation instruction, what brand and model did you buy? Marine board is what, water resisteant drywall? No drywall, greenboard, blue board or paperless board in wet areas. Inside a shower use Wonderboard, Hardieboard or Schlyter system.

[CorinnaMM47]

They used Wonderboard but shot screws through it all around at the base of the pan. It seems to me that no holes should be made down that low. I'm trying to prove a pt to the contractor because his men made may screwholes in the very bottom of the wall, all 5 feet of it , and also at the narrow side. It seems like that could cause future leaks and nightmares to fix... Thanks so much for responding to my inguiry. I'm just the homeowner, but my common sense is kicking in and will probably get me in trouble!!
Corinna

[ballengerb1]

Weren't the screws covered by the wonderboard covering the lip of the pan? What brand and model did you buy? Here is a Swanstone instruction booklet, pay attention to the diagram at the bottom of page 8. The cement board cpovers the lip http://www.theswancorp.com/images/li...2006-10-09.pdf

[Milo Dolezal]

Ballenberb1: it looks like they used vinyl lining to make their own pan. They used Wonderboard on walls over the lining. I agree with the Poster: the nails should not be lower then about 6" above the floor (water level).

( Where the heck is BlkJack when we really need him..! ):D

[speedball1]

For directions on how to pan a custom tile shower click on; Mortar Bed Shower Floor for Tile Showers Good luck, Tom

[massplumber2008]

Hi all...

Just wanted to pop in and agree with Milo on the fact that a vinyl shower pan should not have any screws introduced below the level of the threshold.

Corinna, you asked about the type of screw to be used with wonderboard. Wonderboard or any other cementous board should use an alkali-resistant tape and screw.

If your tile man continues to argue the points made here call your local building inspector and talk to him about this. Most likely, there should have been a permit pulled, too... ;)

MARK

[Bljack]

MARINE BOARD? WHAT THE H-E-DOUBLE HOCKEY STICKS IS MARINE BOARD AND WHY IS IT GOING IN A SHOWER?


It sounds like it all needs to be torn out and redone. The abridged version of construction would go like this:

Build a preslope layer using drypack, sloped 1/4"per foot from the furthest point from the drain (drypack = 4pts sand 1 pt portland, mixed with water to sandcastle sand consistency), then liner, then moisture barrier on the walls, then lath over the curb and backer on the walls, do not fasten bottom 8" of backer. Install setting bed of mud (drypack) which holds bottom of backer against framing and wedges curb lath against inside of pan. Form curb over lath with masons mix. Set your tile with thinset form a bag, no mastic. Grout, caulk all changes in plane, enjoy your shower.

The preslope layer is level around the perimeter, the slope from all areas closer to the drain would be greater than 1/4" per foot, but you want your tile to be all level at the bottom of the wall. Over wood subfloors, the preslope layer would be over tar paper and lath, on a slab, the preslope layer is bonded to the slab with thinset.

The liner is supprted up the walls by blocking installed between the wall framing. The bottom of the framing should be slightly planned to account for the liner thickness and the blocking would be installed to the planned down face of the blocking. This is to prevent abrasive wear upon the liner and to prevent the cement board walls from bowing outward at the bottom of the shower.

2000 IRC:
P2709. 3 Installation. Lining materials shall be pitched one-fourth unit vertical in 12 units horizontal (2-percent slope) to weep holes in the subdrain by means of a smooth, solidly formed subbase, shall be properly recessed and fastened to ap-proved backing so as not to occupy the space required for the wall covering, and shall not be nailed or perforated at any point less than 1 inch (25. 4 mm) above the finished threshold.

Uniform Plumbing Code related to shower pan construction.

"412. 8 When the construction of on-site built-up shower receptors is
Permitted by the Administrative Authority, one of the following means shall
Be employed:
(1) Shower receptors built directly on the ground:
Shower receptors built directly on the ground shall be watertight and shall
Be constructed from approved type dense, non-absorbent and non-corrosive
Materials. Each such receptor shall be adequately reinforced, shall be
Provided with an approved flanged floor drain designed to make a watertight
Joint in the floor, and shall have smooth, impervious, and durable surfaces.
(2) Shower receptors built above ground:
When shower receptors are built above ground the sub-floor and rough side of
Walls to a height of not less than three (3) inches (76 mm) above the top of
The finished dam or threshold shall be first lined with sheet plastic*,
Lead* or copper* or shall be lined with other durable and watertight
Materials.
All lining materials shall be pitched one-quarter (1/4) inch per foot
(20. 9 mm/m) to weep holes in the subdrain of a smooth and solidly formed
Sub-base. All such lining materials shall extend upward on the rough jambs
Of the shower opening to a point no less
Than three (3) inches (76 mm) above the top of the finished dam or threshold
And shall extend outward over the top of the rough threshold and be turned
Over and fastened on the outside face of both the rough threshold and the
Jambs.
Non-metallic shower sub-pans or linings may be built-up on the job site
Of not less than three (3) layers of standard grade fifteen (15) pound (6.8
Kg) asphalt impregnated roofing felt. The bottom layer shall be fitted to
The formed sub-base and each succeeding layer thoroughly hot mopped to that
Below. All corners shall be carefully fitted and shall be made strong and
Watertight by folding or lapping, and each corner shall be reinforced with
Suitable webbing hot-mopped in place. All folds, laps, and reinforcing
Webbing shall extend at least four (4) inches (102 mm) in all directions
From the corner and all webbing shall be of approved type and mesh,
Producing a tensile strength of not less than fifty (50) psi (344. 5 kPa) in
Either direction. Non-metallic shower sub-pans or linings may also consist
Of multi-layers of other approved equivalent materials suitably reinforced
And carefully fitted in place on the job site as elsewhere required in this
Section.
Linings shall be properly recessed and fastened to approved backing so
As not to occupy the space required for the wall covering and shall not be
Nailed or perforated at any point which may be less than one (1) inch (25.4
Mm) above the finished dam or threshold. An approved type sub-drain shall be
Installed with every shower sub-pan or lining. Each such sub-drain shall be
Of the type that sets flush with the sub-base and shall be equipped with a
Clamping ring or other device to make a tight connection between the lining
And the drain. The sub-drain shall have weep holes into the waste line. The
Weep holes located in the subdrain clamping ring shall be protected from
Clogging.

*Lead and copper sub-pans or linings shall be insulated from all conducting
Substances other than their connecting drain by fifteen (15) pound (6. 8 kg)
Asphalt felt or its equivalent and no lead pan or liner shall be constructed
Of material weighing less than four (4) pounds per square foot (19. 5 kg/m2).
Copper pans or liners shall be at least No. 24 B & S Gauge (0. 02 inches)
(0. 5 mm). Joints in lead pans or liners shall be burned. Joints in copper
Pans or liners shall be soldered or brazed. Plastic pans shall not be coated
With asphalt based materials."

[CorinnaMM47]

Weren't the screws covered by the wonderboard covering the lip of the pan? What brand and model did you buy? Here is a Swanstone instruction booklet, pay attention to the diagram at the bottom of page 8. The cement board cpovers the lip http://www.theswancorp.com/images/li...2006-10-09.pdf

Thank you for the info. It helped prove my pt, but did not help me make "friends" with the contractor!! He's redone it twice... both times incorrectly, but swears it will never leak. Again, thanks for your time in responding.

[CorinnaMM47]

MARINE BOARD? WHAT THE H-E-DOUBLE HOCKEY STICKS IS MARINE BOARD AND WHY IS IT GOING IN A SHOWER?


It sounds like it all needs to be torn out and redone. The abridged version of construction would go like this:

Build a preslope layer using drypack, sloped 1/4"per foot from the furthest point from the drain (drypack = 4pts sand 1 pt portland, mixed with water to sandcastle sand consistency), then liner, then moisture barrier on the walls, then lath over the curb and backer on the walls, do not fasten bottom 8" of backer. Install setting bed of mud (drypack) which holds bottom of backer against framing and wedges curb lath against inside of pan. Form curb over lath with masons mix. Set your tile with thinset form a bag, no mastic. Grout, caulk all changes in plane, enjoy your shower.

The preslope layer is level around the perimeter, the slope from all areas closer to the drain would be greater than 1/4" per foot, but you want your tile to be all level at the bottom of the wall. Over wood subfloors, the preslope layer would be over tar paper and lath, on a slab, the preslope layer is bonded to the slab with thinset.

The liner is supprted up the walls by blocking installed between the wall framing. The bottom of the framing should be slightly planed to account for the liner thickness and the blocking would be installed to the planed down face of the blocking. This is to prevent abrasive wear upon the liner and to prevent the cement board walls from bowing outward at the bottom of the shower.

I sure wish I knew all this before. He's already redone it... without weep holes... left the job, and the helper AGAIN nailed into the bottom 2 inches of the walled perimeter. I can't say anymore, nor can I show him the responses. Plus he hasn't been back on the job in 6 days. So I am apparently on his -hit list!! Thanks you so much for responding. Maybe I'll print out all these responses AFTER he leaves the job. Now he's up to putting on the tile to bowed and uneven sheetrock and wonderboard. (Ceiling is sagging with the tile, so they have to re-do that too!) My 73 year old retired contractor had to come and redo and level, and scrape off the big lumps of spackle (which should not have been used on WONDERBOARD). He also had to countersink the screws (used wrong type) on the Wonderboard and sheetrock!! I give up. He's getting paid, and my old friend is doing the prep (or re-doing).

[CorinnaMM47]

Hi all...

Just wanted to pop in and agree with Milo on the fact that a vinyl shower pan should not have any screws introduced below the level of the threshold.

Corinna, you asked about the type of screw to be used with wonderboard. Wonderboard or any other cementous board should use an alkali-resistant tape and screw.

If your tile man continues to argue the points made here call your local building inspector and talk to him about this. Most likely, there should have been a permit pulled, too...;)

MARK

The contractor says he knows all the inspectors... But I thank you for response, Mark. At least I am re-assured that common sense sure does have it's place in business. I'm expected to "shut up" and let them do whatever... but hey, I have eyes, and like a cat, a lot of curiosity about how things are done. I try not to step over the line, just act interested and ask questions, and always act "lady-like", but he's not liking my participation and interjections. At this rate this job will never be done unless I walk away from it. Thanks, Corinna

[ballengerb1]

Now the contractor is suggesting his familiarity with the inspector has greased the wheels, I'd call him out on that. His work sounds shoddy and will continue to be so if he is allowed to get away with sub code work. Call for an inspection, if it passes ask the inspector to show you the code which allows this type of installation.

[Bljack]

You now have both UPC and IRC code for shower construction. Let me know, send a private message with your email and I will send you Tile Council and ANSI detail of construction as well.

Your code official answers to a higher official as well and none of them like to answer to a media inquiry into their job performance.