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BBDinCT · Oct 10, 2009, 01:20 PM

Hello,

I purchased a TA-10 to replace the spindle in my Symmons '76 Temptrol Model A.

After removing the original spindle I notice that the replacement part is different.

Namely, there is no thread on the largest circumference part on the replacement part whereas the original has a thread.

Did I purchase the wrong part?

Thank you,
Jon

phlanx · Oct 10, 2009, 01:26 PM

Can your new spindle be turned to have the thread?

Ie. Does the new spindle fit exactly but you can't screw it in?

BBDinCT · Oct 10, 2009, 01:34 PM

Originally Posted by phlanx

Can your new spindle be turned to have the thread?

Ie. Does the new spindle fit exactly but you can't screw it in?

I actually haven't taken it out of the packaging yet.

phlanx · Oct 10, 2009, 01:40 PM

Hahahaha, I must admit I have no idea what part you are talking about, but years of ordering parts taking the old part number off the original part and finding out it is different - I do understand :)

Obviously if the original spindle is threaded then the replacement will need to be or the part will not be able to be located and pinned into place

So either re order or if it's a specialised part can the thread be cut into the spindle?

afaroo · Oct 10, 2009, 01:43 PM

See the image below does the new one looks like this, also can you post a picture of your old one? Thanks.

John

phlanx · Oct 10, 2009, 02:12 PM

afaroo - would you say the thread is cut into the spindle so the ridges are flush with the barrel?

afaroo · Oct 10, 2009, 02:56 PM

It looks like it is flush with Barrel, I haven't seen it Physically, Thanks.

John

phlanx · Oct 10, 2009, 03:04 PM

Thanks - so really the only other question is whether the thickness of the metal around the barrel is thick enough to take a thread - if so problem solved

Unless you can get the exact part of course :)

massplumber2008 · Oct 10, 2009, 03:37 PM

Hi all...

BBDinCT... If you purchased a TA-10 spindle assembly it should swap out with the old one no issue... even if it looks a bit different... ;)

Most likely, the bigger issue for you will be the fact that engineering specifications have changed just slightly over the years (of course... right) and you will need to change the HOT and COLD seats as the old seats will not mate up quite as tight to the spindle washers as with the old seats.

Here, try to install the TA-10 spindle and then run the tub/shower and see if any drips remain after shutting down. If the valve drips, you will need to replace the seats.

If you need to change the seats, let us know and we can talk you through that. Changing seats on a valve this old is not easy, so let's cross our fingers that you don't need to change them... :)

MARK

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BBDinCT · Oct 10, 2009, 03:51 PM

Here is the old spindle.

I tried putting the new one in.

It went in, but the water won't turn off.

BBDinCT · Oct 10, 2009, 04:04 PM

Mark,

I just saw your post.

It sounds like I need to replace the seats. Though, this is not a drip, the water is fully flowing.

When I removed the old spindle I noticed there was no washer between the main body and T-11. My new spindle came with a washer so I installed it there. Wrong?

Thanks, Jon

massplumber2008 · Oct 10, 2009, 04:06 PM

Hi Jon:

There is always a washer between the valve and the spindle assembly. Double check to see if the old one is still in place... would keep the washers from seating properly for sure (explain the full flow). If old one is present then remove it and leave the one new washer and tighten all again...

In terms of the spindle assembly... see image. Are you sure you didn't leave the chrome ring behind in the valve? If so, remove using a needlenose pliers.

If not, then you can try to change the washers only (available as a kit), or you can try to change the seats... see if that mates up better. Otherwise, you may need to replace that valve... *OUCH*

When I've worked on these older ones, the old stem worked, but left a drip. I changed the seats and all was fine. I also tried this on a couple other ones and couldn't change the seats (tools just rounded the crevices used to remove the seats) and had to change out the valve entirely.

Check for the chrome ring. Then go purchase the washer kit... cheapest bet here! If you decide to change the seats you will need the symmons seat removal tools (hot and cold tools) and seats. Of interest, you cannot make/substitute for these tools... you MUST purchase their tools.

It could be that I never saw one of these. I'm in Boston, MA with some of the oldest plumbing in the country, but could simply be that I have yet to work on a 1976 model and you are out of luck and will need to replace that valve!!... ;)

Finally, you can always call the symmons technical department... they'll settle this for sure!

MARK

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BBDinCT · Oct 11, 2009, 07:44 AM

Yes, there was a washer there already. (so discolored I missed it)

I removed it and reassembled. The water turns off now.

Though, the handle does seem to need to be turned hard closed to fully turn off the water. I think it will do.

Thank you everyone for your help!

afaroo · Oct 11, 2009, 07:49 AM

Thanks for the update and I am glad that we could help, and special thanks to Mark for his valuable advice as usual.

Regards,
John

massplumber2008 · Oct 11, 2009, 09:46 AM

Hi all:

As Afaroo said, thank you for updating us!

If you dare, you could change the hot and cold seats... see images. This will make it so that the valve feels like new. Although, as previously stated, the seats may not come out... can be tough job!

If you decide to go for seat removal you will need to purchase the seats and the seat removal tools (see last image).

Good Luck!

MARK

BBDinCT · Oct 11, 2009, 10:11 AM

Thanks, I may get brave and try fixing the seats if the kids have a hard time turning the water off.

Also, I need to replace the O-ring on the limit stop screw (T-35) as water is leaking from it.

I can't seem to find the dimensions for the O-ring anywhere.

Any ideas? I'm thinking I will be safe with some teflon tape.

massplumber2008 · Oct 11, 2009, 11:10 AM

Good thinking BBD... ;)

I've used a few wraps of teflon tape on this myself a few times... works like a charm! :)

MARK

BBDinCT · Oct 16, 2009, 05:33 PM

Originally Posted by massplumber2008

Hi all:

As Afaroo said, thank you for updating us!

If you dare, you could change the hot and cold seats...see images. This will make it so that the valve feels like new. Although, as previously stated, the seats may not come out...can be tough job!

If you decide to go for seat removal you will need to purchase the seats and the seat removal tools (see last image).

Good Luck!

MARK

Mark,

Where would I buy the seats and tools?

The dripping is more than I would like.

Thanks,

Jon

massplumber2008 · Oct 16, 2009, 05:52 PM

The tools and the seats are available at any local plumbing supply store.

When you try this you need to set the tools into place and then... GO FOR IT! Talk to your local plumbing supply counter guy so he can explain in detail. If you have hard water then this can also make seat removal/replacement hard...

Basically, just want you to be prepared for worst case. If seat removal fails you will need to access the old valve body from behind via access panel or from front via a remodeler's plate.

Keep me posted.

MARK

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BBDinCT · Oct 17, 2009, 12:57 PM

Mark,

Not sure if I am being lazy or a chicken, but I am trying to avoid replacing the seats.

I shut off just the cold water and leaking stopped, so my guess is it is just the seal between the cold seat and the larger washer on the spindle that is the culprit.

I know the previous owner of the home was pretty handy and most things are in good working order. So I figure the washer retaining ring on the old spindle (see picture from earlier post) was removed on purpose. It wouldn't just fall off.

I removed this ring on my new spindle, reinstall. Turn the cold and hot water on. Bamn! No leaking.

Unfortunately, no cold water either. The washer must have stuck onto the seat and is preventing flow.

I don't get how the old spindle worked all these years without the ring, but mine doesn't. Maybe it was glued?

I guess I'm out another 35 bucks for a new spindle, plus more dough for the seats and tools.

At least I'm having fun, plus the wife and kids can use the bathroom since I don't have to kill the water any more.

Jon