[give2me1lemons]

In sixth we were tested to see how we learned best. I scored highest for logic. Second highest was creative.

I cannot memorize math problems and have developed a mental block for the subject over the years. It's like tuning out a foreign language.

I can learn through rhythm and repittion. I can somewhat remember things photographically. I'd do better if the directions were written down just because I second guess and thus confuse myself so much.

A lot of things happened when I was younger, but a lot of people have problems crop up in life. My dad was/is depressed because he has regrets. He didn't travle as much as he wanted to in life. He can't always provide as much as he'd like to. He feels like he lets us down a lot because he quit his one job (his boss was a jerk and he couldn't take it finally after 15 years). He also found out he had hepatitus b when I was probably 10-12. That meant going on medications that made him "not dad" and, while I don't remember too much from then, my sister said he thinks I hated him because of it. He was just not a fun guy to be around, and he feels bad about that and because of all the money it sapped from us.

[give2me1lemons]

I don't have a doctor. I go to shot clinics, or very seldom (once in the last three years?) go to my mom's doctor, who I do not like. No luck there..

I don't like promises, and I won't make them. I think there's a reason, but I've lost it. I just don't feel like they are reliable. I think it has a little to do with vacations that never happened. I'm kind of strong willed that way.

I did feel ignored a lot. I still do. I'm soft spoken and often described as "sweet" sounding and "cute". I have recollections of standing up on a couch and demanding to be heard, then "runnning away" to the playhouse out back when my parents failed to listen or talked over me. I ran away a lot actually, but I never got far. My sister said I screamed a lot when I was a toddler, but I don't remember that at all.

Cutting does release endorphins, but it doesn't help me anymore. It doesn't hurt enough. Burning was better, but I can't do that here. I don't always understand what's so bad about it, but I'm trying to quit anyway.

[give2me1lemons]

Lastly, I do stick to the safe and familiar too much. I know this. That's why I put myself in such a scary situation with no outs. I'm trying to change, but I'm not feeling strong enough alone.

I can handle the courses. In fact, I don't feel busy enough. It's the people..


Oh, and I won't let myself have a relationship with a guy right now. I've heard too many times you can't have a healthy relationship until you love yourself. I do have a guy that is obsessed with me (he's 21), despite knowing many of my issues.. I can't seem to scare him off. He won't take no for an answer.

[asking]

This all makes a lot of sense to me. It sounds like your father's problems have dominated your family life. That and probably other stuff made it hard for you to be heard. It's really important for adults to listen to children, to take in what they are saying and acknowledge it--even if they don't necessarily give them everything they want. But when adults are overwhelmed, it's easy to forget to do this. That might have left you feeling like you had to handle all your problems yourself.

Now I can see why you reacted so strongly to your inconsiderate room mate.

KISS has mentioned abuse several times. Was there any kind of abuse and I missed that? Or just modest emotional neglect (which is still important).

Promises are damaging if people aren't committed to keeping them. So if you have been disappointed a lot, you just don't believe them after a while. You might not even want to hear another promise. But commitments make life stabler. So if you can keep promises and be with people who keep theirs, you'll have a happier life. It almost doesn't matter what the promises are.

[give2me1lemons]

I don't think my parents have ever abused me, though I've often wondered if ever I was since a very young age. Again, I don't remember why. The closest incidents are..

The one time I remember being spanked by my mom. I don't remember what I did. I just remember it was before school and I cried and felt degraded.

When I was 12 or 13 and my mom suggested I talk to someone. I freaked out and went outside for space. However, I did this barefoot in early winter or spring so it was cold and there was snow. My mom thought I was running away and yelled at me to come in; I refused. It went on like this, voices and profanity escalating until she tried to drag me inside. There was a scuffle-just pushing and pulling-and I hit my nail on the door. It bled. I won. She got tired and went inside, threatening to call someone to come get me. I came in after a couple minutes, exclaiming "she's going to kill us all". That was the first time I cut. I don't know why I was like that.

I've clashed with my dad a lot. He says it's because we are too alike. I've had issues with him because of drinking and lies. Both my parents tend to shelter me and lie to preserve my feelings-it doesn't work. The truth comes out eventually. My dad failed to mention he was married before until it slipped one day. This upset me (I was 13 or 14) because it meant nothing, including his marriage to my mom, is permanent (I used to worry about them divorcing a lot because they fought and many of my friend's parents divorced-I still think it's the end when couple's argue). Then I made him swear he'd only been married once, which he did, only for me to discover he'd actually been married twice before my mother. That hurt our relationship. Then when I was 15, he, according to my dad's family (my gram included), got drunk at a family reunion and wanted to set off fireworks. They wouldn't let him, and he got mad and eventually drove off. So the story goes, I never really heard his side. I got to spend the night worrying if he killed anyone or himself until we finally received word he was all right and headed home in the early am (my mom relayed the information to my gram-I was staying with my gram with a friend about three and a half hours from home). I also gave the police his license number and discovred he left without his wallet, license, money, and glasses while rifling through his suitcase (I no longer respected him). My parents maintain he was not drunk. It hardly matters anymore.


More often I have felt overshadowed by my sister. She's louder, prettier, and more successful.

[KISS]

I think I see incidence of emotional abuse here. It's a tough cookie to crack and a tough one to identify. Separation and living one your own will eventually crack it. That's why you have to stick it out.

You have to quit running back home and mom has to "let you grow up".

What that means for you is that you have to fall on your face a little, get up look around and say so what and start over.

Mom has to quit doing the "I want you to come for dinner". Bet she won't ask if you WANT to come for dinner. AW, I bet your having a rough time, rubbing your back etc the out pops, "ARE YOU SURE YOU WHAT TO GO TO SCHOOL"

Bet there's an indian giver there. Someone, say mom, knew you would fail. She lets you go. Mom knows that you'll come crawling home. You go crawling home and mom has control over her baby as she always had.

No No No No No! You can't let that happen.

It should be, mom, that's for the ride to colledge. Giver her a hug and don't allow her to unpack you. Mom I'll be fine. Next week or so I'll let you now if I forgot anything. It's your place, not hers now.

When she comes to visit and tries to re-arrange. We like it like this.

IT'S TIME FOR MOM TO STOP BEING YOUR MOTHER AND YOU HER CHILD. IT'S TIME FOR HER TO LOOSE A CHILD AND GAIN A DAUGHTER.

THE CHILD BECOMES THE ADULT DAUGHTER. THE MOTHER ACCEPTS THAT HER DAUGHTER HAS GROWN UP. ITS TRAUMATIC. IT WILL HAPPEN WITH SEPARATION. It won't otherwise.

Do IT!

[give2me1lemons]

Wait, I don't see the emotional abuse? Where did that come from?

My mom did say she doesn't want me so far. So did my grandpa. My dad sai college isn't for everyone and supported me outright. I'm not sure I'd call that abuse though or say they wanted me to fail and come home if they are coming down here to try and figure out how I can stay.


Right now, I don't care if I ever go to college. I'm just tired and it's bothering me that he won't talk to me. I hate letting people down. I feel so annoying and crazy. It's not fair.

[KISS]

Your not suppposed to see the abuse clearly, not until you have been made aware.

I'll have to dig out my other books. I never liked hat I found on the web. This is a start:

http://www.buzzle.com/articles/emoti...-symptoms.html

From the above link:

* Feeling of depression
* Withdrawal from social interaction
* Isolation from friends and family
* Low self-esteem
* Fearfulness
* Increased anxiety
* Guilty feeling
* Feeling of shame
* Mood changes
* Nervous feeling
* Not trusting others
* Frequent blaming on others
* Self-blaming
* Pessimistic behavior
* Substance or drug abuse
* Extreme dependence on others
* Avoiding eye-contact
* Telling lies
* Aggressive behavior
* Emotional instability
* Suicidal attempts


ANything familiar? I think so. See how many you can check off.

[give2me1lemons]

Okay, so I can check almost if not all off. There could be no other reason than abuse? I can't see when I was ever abused...


And I'm not returning to my parents or my sister, even if I think they are the only ones who legitimately care about me. I think they are the only one's who care about me because no one else has really stepped up and been there for me. Everyone else just leaves.

[KISS]

Okay, so I can check almost if not all off. There could be no other reason than abuse? I can't see when I was ever abused...

OK, we have the symptoms. Good. Now, you need to fib when someone asks if you are at risk to harm yourself and/others". You just got thrown a life jacket. Don't give it up. "THEY", can make you drown, so you'll never see normal life again.

Working on how and and what, is going to take some effort on may part too.

Being emotionally abused in not a diagnosis. The diagnosis is what you became after repeated abuses.

I probably won't have much time during the day, but I'll see what I can do.

Is there an inordinate "desire to please"? If so, try to figure out how that occurred.

[asking]

I actually don't see the abuse either. Your father seems rather poor at governing his impulses and both your parents sound like they have pretty serious problems with communication. This is a recipe for tumult.

Trying to physically drag a 13 year old inside the house is an exercise in futility. And I'm surprised your mother didn't know better. I think I would have just waited for you to come back in--because you are obviously sensible enough not to stand around in the snow barefoot until your toes freeze. But it's easy for me to say. I've done stupid parenting things myself. Every parent eventually does things that in retrospective are totally idiotic.

I think people telling you you are like your father was not a favor, either, since you now identify with him and yet do not seem to respect him. It sounds like you feel at some level like your life is bound to be like his. That isn't true, of course, but you have to find that out for yourself and understand it at a deep level. You are not him, and you are not even bound to be just like him, and you get to make your own life. The trick is to find the strength to do that when you are feeling not strong.

The dominating sister. I had one of those! She was older, taller, more beautiful (blond with green eyes), a ballet dancer, the apple of my father's eye. I was short, with brown hair, and too shy to speak in company. Nobody could ever think of anything to ask me or say to me and I grew up thinking I was boring. That turns out not to be true! I have always been competitive with her. But I got more education and have a career and job skills, where she has none.

I could go on, but her advantages as a child have all vanished. In the end, I even ended up being closer to our father than she was. I am not saying that's exactly what will happen with you, just that your upbringing has shaped you to be competitive and a struggler and a rebel, and those are ADVANTAGES out in the world. You just have to learn to channel that into things that are good for you. You already know you have to learn to love yourself. I think you will get there sooner than you think and your life can turn around.

People take one look at me and think I'm cute and nice and they don't expect a sharp intellect. My own family weren't much different. (I wrote an article for a magazine a few years ago and a friend of my father's basically said, "I didn't know you were smart enough to write anything like this!" He didn't use those words but that's what he meant. He'd never really talked to me, even though he'd known me for 20 years. So I'm not one to give advice... ) But anyway, this inability to project one's true competence leads to lots of misunderstandings, although it's not as bad now that I am older and don't look quite so cute and harmless.

I think you might enjoy Frank Sulloway's book on birth order. I'm assuming you are the youngest? It's about how a lot of the best scientists and other great thinkers have been younger siblings. It's called "Born to Rebel" Birth Order, Family Dynamics, and Creative Lives. If you decide to drop out and you have time to read, get it from the library and see if it says anything to you. It's not a pop psych book; it's an academic and historical discussion, but if it interests you, you'll be able to follow it fine.

[asking]

Someone, say mom, knew you would fail. She lets you go. Mom knows that you'll come crawling home. You go crawling home and mom has control over her baby as she always had.

KISS, I really don't see this in what Lemons has written. At the risk of offending, I think you should start a thread on mothers. I'm guessing you'll get a lot of posts. :) It feels like you really need to talk this out. I am inferring that you are in some way talking about your own mother here and I don't doubt that all this is true in your case.

[KISS]

Your correct. Emotional abuse is hard to sift through, if there. She has too many of the symptoms.

It is not something that stares you in the face. I only got it when I read multiple books on toxic parents, verbal abuse and emotional abuse.

Let's suffice to say, that there is upbringing issues and what almost appears to be some sort of mental instabilities in the parenting. This will mess up someone's head for a long time.

Not sure what we can agree on:
1. Trial of Welbutrin?
2. Therapy?
3. See psychologist?

I can't make a dx. There are not enough pieces.

There are symptoms that, I think, require medication and therapy where medication takes the higher weight.

Even, I'll have to go re-read everything. Brain has been foggy because of my rain induced migraines. Even I can't think clearly under these conditions.

You can treat sympomatically and there is no reason not too.

However, some may want to know why am I like this Psychotherapy will help find that answer.

[give2me1lemons]

I'm staying, but I wish I wasn't

I'm going to a "movie night" on my new floor. How can I be social when I'm tired and kind of just not happy. I did have a couple glasses of wine though, so that probably isn't helping.

I may answer more later. I can't believe I am stuck here until December..

[KISS]

Yes! PS: Had a rough day

[give2me1lemons]

Why is it so great I'm staying? And why did you have a rough day?


I don't feel any better about my situation. I have so much to do tomorrow. I just want to sleep a lot.


I am the youngest, but I only have one older sister. She's not compettive with me. She's just amazing and successful. It's a lot to live up to.

I do have a desire to please. Why else would I still be here? I really just want to say f everything and run away. Hitch hike. Hop a plane or a boat. Disappear..

[KISS]

Why is it so great I'm staying? <snip>

We care about you.

I don't feel any better about my situation. I have so much to do tomorrow. I just want to sleep a lot.

You can't. Not until you get meds.

I am the youngest, but I only have one older sister. She's not compettive with me. She's just amazing and successful. It's a lot to live up to.

Starting to make a tiny bit more sense. Tell us a little about parents' perception of kids. Their expectations of you vs your sister.

I do have a desire to please. Why else would I still be here? I really just want to say f everything and run away. Hitch hike. Hop a plane or a boat. Disappear..

Yea, we know that, the run away part. The desire to please, I think is a new one.

Try to figure out where that "desire to please" came from.
Grades? Being like your sister? Parent's pushing you to be like your sister? It won't be one thing, it will be a series of incidents over a long time.

Monday, call the health service and ask for a referral to a psychiarist or other doc that is comfortable to prescribe anti-depresents who is student friendly.

[KISS]

Why does it take two days to get a tire leak fixed at a national US auto store?

Mom decides to be pro-active, notices that car tire is low so she takes it to Pep Boys. They tell her there is no leak and send her home with 42 PSI in the tire. 28 is standard pressure and they said the dealer has to turn off the tire pressure monitor. Yeh, right!

The next day,my turn. Took the tire off and went leak hunting. Found a very very tiny one.

So, I drop it off and walk home (20 min walk) and they say they would call and it would be done within the hour. They never called. I had even marked the leak and told them it was on the rim.

1:45 later, I start walking. I arrive there and they "Could not find a leak, so they lowered the pressure to the correct value and set the car out to pasture to "hurry and wait" to see if it looses air.

Me furious when I got there. I said, you take off the tire and I'll use my soln and I'll show you the leak. Well, they didn't take me up on my offer. Next thing I know the guy is taking the tire off, mounting, balancing and he's starting to take it off the rack.

So, for so good.

Next thing, I know the manager is over there and they take the tire off and put an new one on totally free of charge.

I said I'd reset the air monitor.

No wonder why there are accidents on the road. We trust our cars to professionals and they can't even find an air leak.

If you can't find the time to do it right, when are you going to find the time to do it over.

Shhesh! Story of my life.

PS: Doesn't help, I guess when I use very fine soap solution.

[give2me1lemons]

I'm definitely pretty much stalking these forums. It feels like all I have right now, other than creepy 21 year old who offered to let me move in.

My parents never really set expectations. We were good kids. We both did well initially. Then my sister joined cross country and marching band and FIRST. She was popular, friendly, and had many dates. She went to prom three, maybe four, years in a row. She got into every college she applied to. She lives in a four bedroom house essentially for free, has a great boyfriend, and makes more money than my parents.

I never joined any extra curriculars except horseback riding. That became too difficult to keep up, so I dropped. My mom came to the lessons-and read a book. My dad, sister, and grandparents probably made it to two or three lessons the two years I rode. They made it to basically every band show the one year my sister played. They made it to many cross country meets. They had to keep on me (so they felt) about missing too much school. I never felt up to it, and I missed a lot. I still did well, just not as well as I could have had I been happy and interested. I hung out with friends less and less.

They never set expectations with grades. We did that ourselves. Neither of us messed with alcohol or drugs. They've said they are proud of me-even though I only applied to one school (and went). I've always been single, and they became accustomed to it. I don't know. I don't feel like they ever set standards. We did that ourselves..


I don't know why I have a desire to please; where it came from. I just know I don't like to be hated. I don't like people mad at me. I don't want a bad reputation.

[give2me1lemons]

I think it's a common misconception that humans are the smartest mammals. Well, maybe we are the most intelligent, but that doesn't mean the entire human race is smarter than the average gorilla.. You have some patience. I'd be so annoyed. It's good they fixed it free of charge, though.