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bj_1964 · Oct 21, 2006, 11:05 AM

Well, a week later and you're right I shouldn't have answered the phone. I tried calling her to say "Hi" last Sunday and she didn't answer. Left a brief message and have not heard anything from her a week later. I have resisted the urge to try calling again and have been keeping busy with friends.
Can't figure her out, last week she said she wants to be friends and see where it takes us, yet her actions are not matching her words.

talaniman · Oct 21, 2006, 11:40 AM

No, she is busy and not meeting your expectations as to what a friend is. You want contact, she does not. Real simple leave her alone until she calls you and if she doesn't..

Wildcat21 · Oct 23, 2006, 10:17 AM

See - you seem like a great and sincere guy. She needs to realize that - sometimes it takes a woman a long time to realize this.

Leave her alone - she does not deserve your attention.

I say this EVERY day here - "People Want What They Can't Have" - she has you. You throw yourself out there like a door mat. 'Here take me' - that's how she feels about you.

Again women like to work for things - challenge. Be a challenge - be busy. And when she calls - don't answer. Don't answer. Call back in two days - you were busy.

See - she needs to wonder why you haven't called. What happened.

AKaeTrue · Oct 23, 2006, 10:30 AM

She may be putting the interest of taking care of her children first, worrying about how she will support herself and them with no income. She may be feeling the guilt of not deserving a relationship when she can't supply for her family sort-of like a "no work, no play" kind of thing.
Or, it's possible she's interested in someone else and wants to let you down easy...
Hope things work out.
Kae

bj_1964 · Oct 23, 2006, 06:37 PM

Wildcat, thanks for the advice. I hate to admit it but you are right. Going on two weeks since we talked and I have made up my mind I will not call. If she ever does call, the voicemail will take it. I am really starting to get in the frame of mind that this is over. Even though she said she wanted to slow down, be friends, etc... her actions are speaking a lot louder than her words.

valinors_sorrow · Oct 23, 2006, 06:55 PM

I don't know if this will help but there was a time when I was the sort of woman that a new relationship and a loss of job would do a number on me. I would need to, not want to, put the relationship on hold until the job situation was handled. I might have been willing to ask in a slightly clearer manner than she did, but that is what I would need. The emotional impact of the job loss and the subsequent stress of not having a means to support would render me socially unfit, which would include a new boyfriend who I might not be ready to fully trust just yet seeing me in such a state. Some of us do not multi-task well, especially about emotional or survival based stuff.

Also it would have to do with knowing my limitations for loss and not wanting to leave myself open to being doubley devastated should what the new boyfriend see about me cause him to run screaming from my life. Its knowing yourself well enough to fear that any more loss and you're going to lose it and trying to take steps to not get there. It would be a self protection measure and if I was not sure he would understand I might not be all that clear in my explanation.

You could really add to this in subtle ways by looking or sounding like you don't or won't understand AND that you think your needs come before hers at a time like this. Does that allow for a little more slack?

I think you could ask yourself what's waiting costing you stacked up against what she has on her plate at the moment-- no job, single parent with kids, yikes. If you do call her again, don't ask her how its going, she'll tell you. Tell her instead of what supportive measure you can offer her, that you understand what a panic no job is, that you miss being with her but you get that her plate is just too full right now, and ask what could you do to help, etc. Otherwise you could come off as just one more demand for her attention on her crowded list.

bj_1964 · Oct 23, 2006, 07:34 PM

Valinors--thanks for your perspective. I do agree with you and made it very clear to her that I did not expect anything and understood and agreed that we needed to slow down. I have no problem waiting, but when she tells me that we can see each other as friends and tells me to call, but doesn't return my messages I am not sure what to think. I have done everything I can think of to explain to her I am here to support and help her yet I get the feeling she wants nothing to do with me at the moment.

Like I said I would wait as long as it takes for this girl, but I don't like being left hanging not being sure if she has any plans to see where this relationship might go.

valinors_sorrow · Oct 23, 2006, 07:39 PM

Originally Posted by bj_1964

Valinors--thanks for your perspective. I do agree with you and made it very clear to her that I did not expect anything and understood and agreed that we needed to slow down. I have no problem waiting, but when she tells me that we can see each other as friends and tells me to call, but doesn't return my messages I am not sure what to think. I have done everything I can think of to explain to her I am here to support and help her yet I get the feeling she wants nothing to do with me at the moment.

Like I said I would wait as long as it takes for this girl, but I don't like being left hanging not being sure if she has any plans to see where this relationship might go.

Forgive me, I know I came in late on this thread. Was there more than one call left on the machine? Somehow I got the impression that it was only one call left on her machine. My point is that's a lot of concern you've build up on just one call not being returned that she might not have even received or, humbling as this is for you, she may have forgotten too. Its not enough to read anything into her actions, not in my book anyway. These are no ordinary times for her. I don't think the job loss effect is being factored in here big enough. Call her and ask. I know Wildcat said don't call -- you look clingy. There is a difference between clingy and confused. Needy or not depends on how you sound on the phone. Needing clear communication supercede giving anyone space as far as I am concerned -- no one should be left hanging wondering what is happeneing. And the fact that you are IS on her. Call her to get clarification-- that is reasonable, mature and understandable. If necessary, negotiate a period that you'll feel comfortable waiting. If she is not capable of that, that's on her. But to have built all this on "she doesn't call" when the phone works both ways is silly and unnecessary. I have to say I don't think much of waiting games. They are games. "Give me space, date other people, maybe I'll see ya in a month" -- well now that's entirely different.

bj_1964 · Oct 23, 2006, 07:44 PM

I had left one about a week prior on her cellphone voicemail, which she called back after a few days. The last message I left was a week ago Sunday. I know her well enough that her cell is always at her side so I have no doubt that she got the message.

valinors_sorrow · Oct 23, 2006, 08:03 PM

Okay then I give... if you two can't manage phones between you then its doubtful in stressful times you'll manage a relationship. I am sorry for your loss.

I have said repeatedly here: going too fast is a pretty serious hazard because trying to slow it down or back up often stresses things too far and ends the relationship. See, the anatomy of a relationship is such that as time goes by, the couple typically (hopefully) gets better and better at negotiating stress between them. With a new couple trying to slow it down, that's a big stressor at a time when the relationship is still new and the skill levels (communication, trust, boundaries, willingness to risk vulnerabilities, balancing needs, etc) of the couple aren't matured enough to handle that.

bj_1964 · Oct 23, 2006, 08:46 PM

Valinors-- Sorry your last post only partially showed when I replied and ended after your third sentence. I did not see the portion about communications. What is your suggestion. All the other posts I read here stress "no contact", yet after reading your posts you seem to have a better understanding of the situation than others. I am really not trying to play games with managing the phones, but other posts say not to come on too strong. I really do want to help her and be there for her, regardless of how the relationship turns out. I had thought about sending a short text message to say "hi" or writing her a short letter, would this be a better way to try and start some communication again? I don't want to come across as "clingy" or pushy, but don't want to ignore her either.

Skell · Oct 23, 2006, 08:59 PM

Originally Posted by bj_1964

Valinors-- Sorry your last post only partially showed when I replied and ended after your third sentence. I did not see the portion about communications. What is your suggestion. All the other posts I read here stress "no contact", yet after reading your posts you seem to have a better understanding of the situation than others. I am really not trying to play games with managing the phones, but other posts say not to come on too strong. I really do want to help her and be there for her, regardless of how the relationship turns out. I had thought about sending a short text message to say "hi" or writing her a short letter, would this be a better way to try and start some communication again? I don't want to come across as "clingy" or pushy, but don't want to ignore her either.

Just my opinion but I think you have offered your support to her and tried to let her know you are there for her.
And I'm sure she knows this.

You can only do so much to help her anyway. Just like the situation you find yourself in right now the only person that can help her is herself. Like you can only help you. Others can be there to be lent on, but essentially it is up to the individual to help themselves.

I think you have offered your support but now the ball is in her court and it is up to her if she chooses to accept that help.

She may want to deal with this on her own, and you continually trying to call her might actually be annoying her. Hence, she doesn't return your calls.

Could that be a hint from her to you to leave her be for a little while?

If she loves you then she will come back. But in the mean time you have your own issues to deal with. So my suggestion would be to concentrate on dealing with YOU right now!

Skell · Oct 23, 2006, 09:05 PM

Im only going off my expereinces too. I know I felt like I had to be there to help my ex through her tough times like I had done the many times before. But when someone wants to do something themselves, then they must be left to their own devices. The more I pushed the further away she got until she was gone for good.

It is hard. Because you want and deserve answers. I just know that pushing for them sometimes will not have the desired effect.

valinors_sorrow · Oct 24, 2006, 05:52 AM

Originally Posted by bj_1964

Valinors-- Sorry your last post only partially showed when I replied and ended after your third sentence. I did not see the portion about communications. What is your suggestion. All the other posts I read here stress "no contact", yet after reading your posts you seem to have a better understanding of the situation than others. I am really not trying to play games with managing the phones, but other posts say not to come on too strong. I really do want to help her and be there for her, regardless of how the relationship turns out. I had thought about sending a short text message to say "hi" or writing her a short letter, would this be a better way to try and start some communication again? I don't want to come across as "clingy" or pushy, but don't want to ignore her either.

Well then... jiminy crickets...call her and tell her all of that in a light, self confident kind of way like I see in your posts here! And while you're at it, ask why she isn't returning calls -- even between friends that is a little rude! (don't say that last part, say its not commonly very acceptable, okay? LOL I did that for emphasis!)

Façades or lack of honesty from an unwillingness to be vulnerable do lots of damage in new relationships. They make it all about who is going to show their underbelly first and it turns into some stupid contest that takes over and colors all the action. I say this emphatically: "Iffen ya don't have the guts to show your underbelly, then don't be in the dang ring!" Excuse me for being momentarily really opinioned here but I think everyone in a relationship ought to read that last sentence twice -- it just might be one of my better ones LOL.

It isn't needy to say, "I would like time with you." It's genuine. It isn't clingy to say, "I am still interested in you even when the chips are down or you don't feel like yourself and I too am scrambling to figure out what slow means." It's the TRUTH and last time I looked the truth works like gang busters?

PS - thanks for that vote of confidence too. And post #28 -- forgive me, I was probably still messing with it when you were trying to read it, I do that sometimes. That's the editor in me. Sorry about that!

bj_1964 · Oct 24, 2006, 12:42 PM

All right so I see both sides of the advice. I have tried to tell her I would like time with her, and that I am here to help her, with no expectations on my part. I am not really sure if I should stay with the "no contact" advice or try to call again. Would sending her a letter or card possibly be less intrusive to her, but still show that I care?

Wildcat21 · Oct 24, 2006, 12:47 PM

Every relationship is very different. You can only really DEEP DOWN I nthe gut know what's right.

The no contact generally is best for a lot of reasons - you and her.

BIM · Oct 24, 2006, 12:58 PM

Originally Posted by bj_1964

Okay, so I didn't exactly follow everyone's advice. She called tonight, and I answered.

I know I shouldn't have answered, but am glad I did!

I agree with you, you don't need to completely ignore her. You have slowed down, you told her you were going out with your friends, nothing wrong with the way you handled it.

Just because you broke up doesn't mean you have to pretend like she doesn't exist.

Just my thought. Nothing wrong with letting you know you are still around and care.

Good luck. :o

valinors_sorrow · Oct 24, 2006, 01:43 PM

Originally Posted by bj_1964

Would sending her a letter or card possibly be less intrusive to her, but still show that I care?

The only way to know that for sure... is TO ASK HER!
Look, I will come to regret this if all I did was create confusion here. This is just one of those places where WC and I really see differently.

But it seems to me someone needs to cut through the you-know-what and get to the bottom of it. Otherwsie it turns into a never-ending game of guessing what anyone means about anything -- UGH UGH UGH to that from me!!

You seem to be the only one capable of cutting through, unless she is here too, and so I said to you make contact and get the FACT straights from her. There is no harm in doing that for any healthy relationship on this planet. And if it does harm, GOOD! Then you know. Not healthy!!

I don't believe for one second it puts the kabosh on any relationship, even if its 5 minutes old, to ask "where do I stand with you?" A sane person would then laugh and say, "Gee after 5 minutes umm a friendly stranger???" and let it go. Neediness is defined by a whole string of things, not one question. Or lets say if you ask it every 5 minutes, then you might be watching the other person slowly back away from you without turning around LOL

Skell · Oct 24, 2006, 05:15 PM

I will go with Val here and give her one more try.
But you will be able to judge by her response what she really wants from you at this point.
And you have to be honest with yourself OK?

Offer your support and help like val said in a light and fun way.

See how she reacts and then you react appropriately.

As cat said, all situations are different and you will know what is right. But you have to be honest and prepared for answers you may not want to hear!

bj_1964 · Oct 24, 2006, 07:41 PM

You have all given me a lot of options, and I appreciate that. I now need to take some time and think over what is best for me. Honestly I would like to get answers, even if they are ones I don't want to hear. The truth is better than not knowing and wondering what is up.