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Ultra Member
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Jul 13, 2009, 08:00 AM
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 Originally Posted by NeedKarma
Qualifications of Signers
Signatories are approved for inclusion in the Petition Project list if they have obtained formal educational degrees at the level of Bachelor of Science or higher in appropriate scientific fields. The petition has been circulated only in the United States.
The current list of petition signers includes 9,029 PhD; 7,153 MS; 2,585 MD and DVM; and 12,711 BS or equivalent academic degrees. Most of the MD and DVM signers also have underlying degrees in basic science.
All of the listed signers have formal educations in fields of specialization that suitably qualify them to evaluate the research data related to the petition statement. Many of the signers currently work in climatological, meteorological, atmospheric, environmental, geophysical, astronomical, and biological fields directly involved in the climate change controversy.
The Petition Project classifies petition signers on the basis of their formal academic training, as summarized below. Scientists often pursue specialized fields of endeavor that are different from their formal education, but their underlying training can be applied to any scientific field in which they become interested.
Outlined below are the numbers of Petition Project signatories, subdivided by educational specialties. These have been combined, as indicated, into seven categories.
1. Atmospheric, environmental, and Earth sciences includes 3,803 scientists trained in specialties directly related to the physical environment of the Earth and the past and current phenomena that affect that environment.
2. Computer and mathematical sciences includes 935 scientists trained in computer and mathematical methods. Since the human-caused global warming hypothesis rests entirely upon mathematical computer projections and not upon experimental observations, these sciences are especially important in evaluating this hypothesis.
3. Physics and aerospace sciences include 5,810 scientists trained in the fundamental physical and molecular properties of gases, liquids, and solids, which are essential to understanding the physical properties of the atmosphere and Earth.
4. Chemistry includes 4,818 scientists trained in the molecular interactions and behaviors of the substances of which the atmosphere and Earth are composed.
5. Biology and agriculture includes 2,964 scientists trained in the functional and environmental requirements of living things on the Earth.
6. Medicine includes 3,046 scientists trained in the functional and environmental requirements of human beings on the Earth.
7. Engineering and general science includes 10,102 scientists trained primarily in the many engineering specialties required to maintain modern civilization and the prosperity required for all human actions, including environmental programs.
The following outline gives a more detailed analysis of the signers' educations.
Atmosphere, Earth, & Environment (3,803)
1. Atmosphere (578)
I) Atmospheric Science (113)
II) Climatology (39)
III) Meteorology (341)
IV) Astronomy (59)
V) Astrophysics (26)
2. Earth (2,240)
I) Earth Science (94)
II) Geochemistry (63)
III) Geology (1,684)
IV) Geophysics (341)
V) Geoscience (36)
VI) Hydrology (22)
3. Environment (985)
I) Environmental Engineering (486)
II) Environmental Science (253)
III) Forestry (163)
IV) Oceanography (83)
Computers & Math (935)
1. Computer Science (242)
2. Math (693)
I) Mathematics (581)
II) Statistics (112)
Physics & Aerospace (5,810)
1. Physics (5,223)
I) Physics (2,365)
II) Nuclear Engineering (223)
III) Mechanical Engineering (2,635)
2. Aerospace Engineering (587)
Chemistry (4,818)
1. Chemistry (3,126)
2. Chemical Engineering (1,692)
Biochemistry, Biology, & Agriculture (2,964)
1. Biochemistry (744)
I) Biochemistry (676)
II) Biophysics (68)
2. Biology (1,437)
I) Biology (1,048)
II) Ecology (76)
III) Entomology (59)
IV) Zoology (149)
V) Animal Science (105)
3. Agriculture (783)
I) Agricultural Science (296)
II) Agricultural Engineering (114)
III) Plant Science (292)
IV) Food Science (81)
Medicine (3,046)
1. Medical Science (719)
2. Medicine (2,327)
General Engineering & General Science (10,102)
1. General Engineering (9,833)
I) Engineering (7,280)
II) Electrical Engineering (2,169)
III) Metallurgy (384)
2. General Science (269)
Try again, NK. In fact, consider the evidence instead of just trying to discredit the person(s) for a change.
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Uber Member
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Jul 13, 2009, 08:03 AM
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Dude, they only accept the piece of paper if you checked off the fields on it, they don't do any extra background checking. YOU could check off being a Phd in <insert field here> and they would accept it.
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Ultra Member
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Jul 13, 2009, 08:12 AM
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 Originally Posted by excon
Hello again, steve:
You say that as if we should believe that only a FEW of them might be IDers. For those who don't know, IDers are scientists who have an agenda, and make their science fit it. You have LOTS of them running around righty circles. Why should I believe that only a very few, if any, of the 32,000 signers are NOT IDers???
As long as you have IDers in your ranks, and as long as you've held up ID as REAL science, you're just not going to be taken seriously on science issues... At least not by ME.
excon
I get it, because just ONE of these signers mightt be an IDer they're ALL discredited. Let's apply that to all situations now, OK? One Democrat is corrupt so they're ALL corrupt. One black is a lazy thug so they're ALL lazy thugs. All Mexicans are janitors or pea-pickers, all whites are racist, all Jews are greedy, Muslims are terrorists and left handed people are gay. So basically in your view no one is worth a damn... except you of course and those who think like you when they think like you. Am I right?
You might just consider that there's probably no doctorate in Intelligent Design. They actually had to complete the courses to get their degrees in most cases don't you think?
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Ultra Member
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Jul 13, 2009, 08:12 AM
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And it is very easy to independently verify the credentials.
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Uber Member
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Jul 13, 2009, 08:14 AM
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 Originally Posted by speechlesstx
I get it, because just ONE of these signers mightt be an IDer they're ALL discredited.
No, the petition is discredited because they might not even be real people. The rest of your rant is awkward to read.
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Ultra Member
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Jul 13, 2009, 08:15 AM
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IDers are scientists who have an agenda, and make their science fit it.
All the science that ID uses is legitimate science. That is not my problem with them. They do a good job at creating a valid objection to the theories of evolution . But their alternative explanation is not science.
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Ultra Member
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Jul 13, 2009, 08:16 AM
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 Originally Posted by NeedKarma
Dude, they only accept the piece of paper if you checked off the fields on it, they don't do any extra background checking. YOU could check off being a Phd in <insert field here> and they would accept it.
Dude, you're awfully naïve sometimes. Or is this just some conspiracy? This group is willing to subject themselves and the legitimate scientists that signed to open ridicule by not performing some sort of validation? How the hell do you know they don't do any checks?
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Uber Member
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Jul 13, 2009, 08:22 AM
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Hello again, Steve:
Nahhh. You got me wrong. If only ONE of the 32,000 is an IDer, then it doesn't change anything. If 100 were, that wouldn't change anything either... But, if a 1,000 were, I'd raise my eyebrows. If 5,000 were, little hairs on the back of my neck would begin to stand up and shout at me.
I tell you what would have solved it for for me. If they would have included an ID category on the petition, then, I could have drawn my own conclusions.
I wonder WHY they left ID off, anyway. Doesn't someone think God is responsible for global warming? As a "valid" field of scientific study, you'd think it WOULD be included on that list.
excon
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Uber Member
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Jul 13, 2009, 08:24 AM
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Ok let's pretend they are all the people named. There are literally tens of millions of Americans with BS (or higher) science degrees. 32, 000 isn't a lot is it? That about 0.1%.
Anyway, read more about the sordid past of the Oregon petition: debunking / Oregon Petition
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Senior Member
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Jul 13, 2009, 08:31 AM
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 Originally Posted by excon
Hello again, steve:
You say that as if we should believe that only a FEW of them might be IDers. For those who don't know, IDers are scientists who have an agenda, and make their science fit it. You have LOTS of them running around righty circles. Why should I believe that only a very few, if any, of the 32,000 signers are NOT IDers???
As long as you have IDers in your ranks, and as long as you've held up ID as REAL science, you're just not going to be taken seriously on science issues... At least not by ME.
excon
So you are saying that the scientists who are global warming deniers or global warming skeptics all have political agendas, but none of the scientists who are global warming proponents are politically motivated?
You will take the word of scientists on the left because they are pure and white as the driven snow, but you will reject scientists on the left because they are politically motivated.
Can you name any scientists who are global warming skeptics who have a political motivation? Or are you just taking that as gospel, just like everything else about global warming?
How about actually looking at the science itself instead of the people. Naw... that's too hard for you. You'll just parrot the scripture of global warming without actually understanding any of it.
Like I said, excon. You're a global warming Chassid.
Elliot
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Ultra Member
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Jul 13, 2009, 08:42 AM
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 Originally Posted by NeedKarma
No, the petition is discredited because they might not even be real people.
You, as an anonymous 'expert' raise that issue here? LOL.
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Uber Member
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Jul 13, 2009, 08:46 AM
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I'm no expert. Never said I was. You say I'm an expert.
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Uber Member
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Jul 13, 2009, 08:49 AM
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 Originally Posted by ETWolverine
You will take the word of scientists on the left because they are pure and white as the driven snow, but you will reject scientists on the left because they are politically motivated.
Hello again, El:
Let me say it again. Maybe I can be CLEARER! I reject ANY science based on politics... ID is one of those " science's". ID "scientists" are rightwingers. They are religionists before they are scientists. They have NO credibility. Those who support them, have NO credibility. YOU are one of them.
As long as your ranks are filled with charlatan IDers, you WILL NOT BE BELIEVED. If you wish to classify my disbelief as sipping the koolaid, so be it.
excon
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Uber Member
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Jul 13, 2009, 09:23 AM
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I'm sure there are scientists that have different findings, I don't dispute that. I don't know who this Goracle person is.
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Ultra Member
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Jul 13, 2009, 09:35 AM
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 Originally Posted by NeedKarma
I'm sure there are scientists that have different findings, I don't dispute that. I don't know who this Goracle person is.
Sure you do, he's the guy running around Australia telling them "the planet has a "fever" caused by climate change." He's always running around somewhere trying to impose his will on other countries.
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Uber Member
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Jul 13, 2009, 09:42 AM
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He must be a pretty powerful guy if his will can change the direction a whole country is taking. I'll look into him.
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Senior Member
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Jul 13, 2009, 09:59 AM
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 Originally Posted by excon
Hello again, El:
Lemme say it again. Maybe I can be CLEARER! I reject ANY science based on politics.... ID is one of those "science's". ID "scientists" are rightwingers. They are religionists before they are scientists. They have NO credibility. Those who support them, have NO credibility. YOU are one of them.
As long as your ranks are filled with charlatan IDers, you WILL NOT BE BELIEVED. If you wish to classify my disbelief as sipping the koolaid, so be it.
excon
Global warming is a science PURELY based on politics. ALL of its proponents are anti-capitalism. Greenpeace is a political movement, not a scientific one. And it's goal is the elimination of industry. Therefore, the entire science of global warming is based purely on politics and has no scientific validity because the proponents are soicialists before they are scientists. They have no credibility. They are nothing but charlatans. As long as your ranks are filled with charlatan socialists, you will not be believed.
Same logic. Same conclusion. Global warming is a farce.
Difference is, I have actual science to back that position up.
Elliot
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Full Member
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Jul 13, 2009, 11:32 AM
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Bottom line:
The envirowhackos are willing to severely raise prices on everything we need AND flush the toilet that our economy is already in.
All because of unproven ideas about warming that isn't even happening.
That really makes sense, doesn't it?
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Ultra Member
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Jul 20, 2009, 09:06 AM
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Good news, India has rebuffed Hillary on her "I'm back and I'm blaming America again Tour."
Hillary: "We acknowledge now with President Obama that we have made mistakes in the United States, and we along with other developed countries have contributed most significantly to the problem that we face with climate change," she said. "We are hoping a great country like India will not make the same mistakes."
Obama's Commerce Secretary got in on the act in saying Americans need to pay for Chinese emissions.
Commerce Secretary Locke: “It’s important that those who consume the products being made all around the world to the benefit of America — and it’s our own consumption activity that’s causing the emission of greenhouse gases, then quite frankly Americans need to pay for that,” Commerce Secretary Gary Locke told the American Chamber of Commerce in Shanghai.
When pressed Commerce did offer an update with some nonsense about "fair trade" and a "level playing field" but with this administration one has to think that was "just words."

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