[Sself01]

My wife and I are both 30, we have been married almost 2 years but been togeather for 10 years. When we 1st started dating I told her if she wanted kids we didn't need to go any further, she expressed the same thoughts on kids I do. I have tried several times to get a vescetomy, and told her hos I feel about kids. On our wedding day I even said kids will void all of this work. Well this month she is late and a take home test said she was pregnant. My view is to abort and keep enjoying our life, I think she wants to keep it. Either way this will not end well, if I make her abort I'm afraid she will hate me, if she keeps it I will loose love for her and I will never love the baby and we will end up in a divorce probably even before the kids is born. If she keeps it I do not care to see, spend time or have any relationship with the baby and I know I will not be as close physical or mental with her. I want to wave my parental rights since I want no connection to the child, if we divorce what can happen to me? I do not want visitation, updates or anything from this child, will I still have to pay child support? One reason we took so long to wed was because she was in school, she has more degrees and a better payign job then I do.

[danielnoahsmommy]

I don't want to sound harsh... but it is bull poopy that you tried several times to have a vas. Bull. Unless your physical make up is alien it only takes 1 try. You stopped yourself... therefore you are the only one to blame.

You have a right to have no children... but you made an error and now there is a future baby due to come.

Man - up.


Support your wife... be a father... stop being hostile... she did not do this to herself.

[Sself01]

Actually, doctors stopped me, they have qualifications you have to meet to have one. I started calling doctors at 19 yrs old. Before I was 25 they told me I was too young, then after 25 and still had no children they wouldn't do it because they said I would possibly change my mind, and it was designed for people with kids who didn't want any more. To get an apointment my wife and I have to go to an interview then I have to schedule another time to go have the procedure. IMO they should just do the procedure and not make you jump through hoops because of their belief. I had an apointment last year but was call into work and my wife couldn't make that date also. We had a date next month to go for the interview but I guess its too late now.

Also the last 2 years I have been helping my family, we lost everything in a house fire, my dad had 2 strokes and then fell and broke his hip and femur on top of moving 2 hours away, new jobs and marriage.

[ScottGem]

First the legal issues. No you can't relinquish your parental rights unless your wife remarries and her new husband wants to adopt. It is very difficult to get a TPR. Even, in the unlikely event you do get one, you will still be held responsible for child support (unless an adoption occurs).

However, there is nothing forcing you to be a part of the child's life. You do not have to see the child, correspond with it or anything else. You just have to financially provide support.

I will not presume to judge you and your decision not to have a child. You seem to have strong feelings on that score. I do agree with you, that you are in a lose-lose situation.

I would suggest you discuss an abortion with your wife. Also discuss putting the child up for adoption. Discuss the consequences of having the child on your marriage. Do this calmly and without blaming anyone. Don't issue ultimatums. Leave the final decision up to her.

Then wait for the child to be born. If you still feel the same way after its born, then yes, you should proceed with a divorce. As I said you WILL be required to pay child support, at least until and unless your wife remarries and the husband wants to adopt.

[Fr_Chuck]

This is hard for me not to call you a lot of things I am sure others will come here and do.

But from the legal side.
You can not give up anything, but if you divorce you do not have to see the child, visit the child or have anything to do with the child.

You will have to write the child a check each month for support, and with this sort of attitude the judge will likely make it a large one.

Also you will most likely have to pay allimony for many years.

Next you can not force anyone to have an abortion. And you calling the baby a "IT" is about as low as I can see a human going. Sorry I will judge you since it is obvious you can not really love your wife but care for yourself much more.

I would advise you to divorce her, since obviously she would be so much better off without someone like you in her life.

[Sself01]

Call me all you want, your listing under your username tells me all I need to know about your opinion. Calling me names doesn't solve anything and will not offend me so go ahead.

I can see why I would have to pay child support but I can see why I don't, unlike others I try to look at both side but I shouldn't have to pay allimony since she does have a better paying job, and 2 degrees that I supported her through to get.

I actually love me wife,I don't want to get a divorce but when I mention my beliefs from the beginning, and this happens she doesn't respect me. Also I will call it what ever I want, no one can make you love or respect something that you don't want to. Children doesn't automatically mean joy or anything special.

[aishaHashmi]

Sself
I personally can understand, you simply were not mentally prepared, nor did you want to be, for a child. I can also see that if you did not want an accident you should have taken every protection that you could to avoid it. I mean your wife should have been on the pill, you should have used condoms as well as a supportive backiup in that case as well, such as the spermicidal lubricating jelly. I know that I have three children, and want to have no more, and because of my religion I am not allowed to use birth control. I am muslim, and there are many restrictions in this area. As for an abortion, I truly hope that you can find another way to go. Have you had such a bad childhood that you think that you will not be a good father? Or, have you had a wonderful childhood, but think parenting is for the birds? I am not judging you at all. My aunt made the decision to never have kids and tells everyubody upfront, "I LIKE TO SLEEP AT NIGHT, AND DO NOT WANT A SNOT NOSED KID FOLLOWING ME AROUND". I understand, and explained to her that they are only little for so long, and they eventually grow up, :) I respect that you talked to her about this before marriage, and yes, the doctors make you follow up so many times, in order to get more money as they charge PER OFFICE VISIT... Anyway, I understand that you are in a position that you are going out of your way to get advice, so are you sure that there is not, if you look REAL, REAL, REAL deep that you might just like to change your mind, but have been saying to everyone for years that you are anti-kid that it is hard for you to switch gears? You seem like a nice guy, and I hope that you and your wife sit together and discuss the pros and cons of parenthood. NO, kids do NOT automatically mean joy and happiness, and I speak from 1st hand experience, as my 14 yr old just spilled milk yesterday in the backseat of my merceded e430. I am so pissed... ANYWAY, there is something truly rewarding and at the same time FRUSTRATING AS HELL to parenting. It takes a lot of time, money, ond patience, and if you look at yourself honest and feel you lack in any area then maybe you should ask your wife what she is going to do, and since you did not really post any information about her thoughts on the matter, maybe you should let us know what she has said so we can get a clear picture on her thoughts. SIncerely, I wish you good luck and if you like, please post so I can get your thoughts on my opinion. Thanks! Aisha

[cadillac59]

call me all you want, your listing under your username tells me all i need to know about your opinion. calling me names dosent solve anything and will not offend me so go ahead.

i can see why i would have to pay child support but i can see why i dont, unlike others i try to look at both side but i shouldnt have to pay allimony since she does have a better paying job, and 2 degrees that i supported her through to get.

i actually love me wife,i dont want to get a divorce but when i mention my beliefs from the begining, and this happens she dosent respect me. also i will call it what ever i want, no one can make you love or respect something that you dont want to. children dosent automatically mean joy or anything special.

I have mixed feelings about your post. One the one hand I think many people would see your message as incredibly crude, egocentric and insensitive. But on the other hand I admire your honesty. Many people never have kids and enjoy wonderful lives. There's sort of a myth out there that without kids you are doomed to a pathetic existence, especially as you age. But I doubt it. Many people have horrible kids who make their lives miserable as they age.

There's also the fact that many people view having kids as achieving immortality--living vicariously through their children by passing on their genes (this never made much sense to me).

Aside from all that, on the legal side of it, if you have a child you will have to pay support and cannot terminate your rights voluntarily unless someone is willing to take your place by adoption (just to repeat what others have said).

[danielnoahsmommy]

After reading your second post... I get the feeling you think she got pregnant. On purpose. Knowing when you got married that you did not want children, I don't think anything was done to spite you.

[ScottGem]

I tend to agree with daniel. It certainly does sound like you believe your wife got pregnant on purpose. If that's the case, then I do understand your feelings against her.

However, if you both were taking precautions and this still happened, I suggest you approach this that way. Accidents do happen.

While I do tend to agree that you do show a callousness that belies your professing love for your wife, I also, like cadillac, admire your honesty.

But the bottom line here is this. You can divorce your wife. Most states have liberalized grounds for divorce so it should not be a problem. As the aggrieved party, however, your wife may be able to get generous spousal and child support even if she makes more than you. You will definitely have to pay child support.

[cadillac59]

I tend to agree with daniel. It certainly does sound like you beleive your wife got pregnant on purpose. If that's the case, then I do understand your feelings against her.

However, if you both were taking precautions and this still happened, I suggest you approach this that way. Accidents do happen.

While I do tend to agree that you do show a callousness that belies your professing love for your wife, I also, like cadillac, admire your honesty.

But the bottom line here is this. You can divorce your wife. Most states have liberalized grounds for divorce so it should not be a problem. As the aggrieved party, however, your wife may be able to get generous spousal and child support even if she makes more than you. You will definitely have to pay child support.

Yes Scott, this guy has been totally honest from the get-go. Can't fault him for that. He said he never wanted kids going into the marriage, tried twice to get a vasectomy only to be turned down for being too young, and now's been blindsided with an unwanted pregnancy he can't do anything about. What's the poor guy to do but hop the fence and become gay? :) Hey, it's not so terrible an idea!

[Sself01]

Haha, I could become the absent gay guy, but I play with too many tools, can't dress and know nothing about shoes. Actually tried more then twice on the vasectomy, even tried lying about my age and marriage to the office.

I have had a great childhood, prob better then most but I have seen my parrents sacrifice things they want because they couldn't afford them, seen pictures and stoies of things they use to do before I came along, an accident. I honestly believe they would be better off and happier if I never came along. I also believe most divorces are caused by kids, kids bring more stress, mentally physically and financially and it wears on the parrents till they are not happy, they were happy before the kids and nothings changed but having kids. I have also seen others who just had to give up everything they enjoyed doing. Call it selfish, could be but I don't see living your dreams through a kid to be the right thing to do.

I love my wife, but I am not attracted to pregnant females, none, even attractive women who have kids. I hate going out and seeing a pregnant female trying to still look attractive and proud their carrying and wearing tight shirts. I don't want friends who have kids because everything has to be planned around the kids. Plus after all (10yrs) of talk about not having kids, both of us being annoyed when we go out by kids, and then her wanting to keep it really seems like a stab in the back. I will stand behind her what I can but if she keeps it I know we will both wind up miserable. We have talked but she is torn about keeping it. One thing is she has a medical condition that could kill her with the pregnancy, she shouldn't have lived after 16, but here she is now 30yrs old. She does have to go get a check up every year and the doctor does ask her about child birth and he said she could possibly carry but it could also be a risk.

[cadillac59]

haha, i could become the absent gay guy, but i play with too many tools, can't dress and know nothing about shoes.

Well, I could teach you about colors and fashion (I'm gay incidentally), but there's a bit more too it than that! Let's just say, your heart really has to be in it-- you have to really really really like the male body, let's put it that way.

Actually, I heard once that the term "gay" arose as a reference to those men (the confirmed "bachelors" as they use to be called when no one was suppose to be gay) who were free from all the hassles of having kids, free from all the things you described, and, so it was thought, were happier and could enjoy life to the fullest (you know, it was the old gay=happy rubric).

The more I think about it the less I think you have anything to be ashamed of.

[ScottGem]

i have had a great childhood, prob better then most but i have seen my parrents sacrafice things they want because they couldnt afford them, seen pictures and stoies of things they use to do before i came along, an accident. i honestly believe they would be better off and happier if i never came along. i also believe most divorces are caused by kids, kids bring more stress, mentally physically and financially and it wears on the parrents till they are not happy, they were happy before the kids and nothings changed but having kids. i have also seen others who just had to give up everything they enjoyed doing. call it selfish, could be but i dont see living your dreams through a kid to be the right thing to do.

i love my wife, but i am not attracted to pregnant females, none, even attractive women who have kids. i hate going out and seeing a pregnant female trying to still look attractive and proud their carrying and wearing tight shirts. i dont want friends who have kids because everything has to be planned around the kids. plus after all (10yrs) of talk about not having kids, both of us being annoyed when we go out by kids, and then her wanting to keep it really seems like a stab in the back. i will stand behind her what i can but if she keeps it i know we will both wind up miserable. we have talked but she is torn about keeping it. one thing is she has a medical condition that could kill her with the pregnancy, she shouldnt have lived after 16, but here she is now 30yrs old. she does have to go get a check up every year and the doctor does ask her about child birth and he said she could possibly carry but it could also be a risk.

I wonder, have you talked to your parents about your feelings? I doubt if they would agree with you about being better off, even if you were an accident. But I know that most people would disagree with you. I also strenuously disagree that kids cause divorces. In fact, I believe its just the opposite. I believe that having kids prevent more divorces then they cause.

I think you have some very weird views that have little basis in fact, but if you want to believe them its up to you.

Finally, given your wife's medical condition, why would you think this was deliberate?

[cadillac59]

I wonder, have you talked to your parents about your feelings? I doubt if they would agree with you about being better off, even if you were an accident. But I know that most people would disagree with you. I also strenuously disagree that kids cause divorces. In fact, I believe its just the opposite. I believe that having kids prevent more divorces then they cause.

I think you have some very wierd views that have little basis in fact, but if you want to believe them its up to you.

Finally, given your wife's medical condition, why would you think this was deliberate?

You know, Scott, when I first read this OP's question I felt a bit like you: this fellow seemed awfully self-centered and unkind. But the more I've thought about it, the less I find reason to hold to this view. It seems to me that we have odd opinions about this subject: there's almost the sense that a person like this should be ashamed of himself for not wanting to reproduce, not wanting kids, and with it the corollary that we should venerate those with children, supposedly for their self-sacrifice. No one is saying that once a child is here we should say we wish it--excuse me, he or she-- were never born. And I don't think this is what this OP was saying. But there is nothing wrong morally with saying, "I wish not to have children." That's a personal decision and not necessarily a bad one: we don't owe nature or the universe or anybody the duty of enduring the expense, loss of time, and sometimes outright drudgery that can be associated with being a parent simply because we were fortunate to have been born ourselves and our parents had to sacrifice for us. No.

So, this OP's point of view is not to be ridiculed. I'd far prefer having people like this in the world that those who smile and chuckle about "spreading their seed" and having multiple children with an assortment of women, paying no support for any of them and never seeing them. There are plenty of those types around, those who think it's proof of their masculinity or sexual prowess to simply cause a pregnancy.

Give it some thought.

[ScottGem]

So, this OP's point of view is not to be ridiculed. .

OH, I certainly agree. While I wasn't happy with the idea of abandoning a wife, especially if this was an accident, the OP is certainly entitled to not want children. While parts of his posts are disturbing in the disregard for his wife's feelings, I still can't get too upset with a guy who sticks to his guns like the OP.

Yes, he should not be ridiculed or chastised for not wanting children. Its not totally unreasonable for him (specifically) to want to end his marriage if it means having to deal with a child.

I do take exception to some of the reasons he has stated has formed his views. But, again, he is entitled to them.

[talaniman]

If having children is a deal breaker then of course you should talk to her, seriously, but if you love your wife, and she has issues with child birthing, I hope you see her through this.

She is caught in the middle here, between an abortion, and losing a husband or risking her life, and needs your support, what ever she decides to do.

Life happens, and you do have to make some adjustments. What they are are up to you, but if a baby is meant to be, divorce or not, you pay as any father should.

Even if she gets the abortion, you will be happy, but will she be? Pregnancy ain't no joke, and neither is an abortion. Neither is risking her life to bring a child into the world, given your position.

Its a life changing event regardless what you do about it, so talk to her, and forget thinking you can make her do anything you want, and expect to go on your happy way. It doesn't work like that.

If you didn't want babies, and could not get some reliable birth control, why have sex, knowing what the consequences are? But I guess abstinence (100% reliable) was not an option.

[Fr_Chuck]

You know when my wife and I married we agreed also to NO KIDS, I already had 5 grown boys and grandkids.

Well a few years latter, we had my son Nate, and now I could not be happier, in fact I fought hard to have him when my wife and I divorced.

Normally once you hold your child for the first time, it all changes.

[stevetcg]

Im late to the party, but hate not to get my 2 cents in...

So your doctor wouldn't do a vascetomy? Get a different doctor. We're not talking about some radical procedure or even something that is necessarily insumoutable if you choose to change your mind about kids later.

If you truly did not want kids, you shouldn't have been having sex. That IS what sex is technically for, dontcha know...

As for forcing her to abort... well... that would likely involve jail time because about the only way you can *force* her involves some form of abuse.

Now for the moral issues... your life is your life and for you to decide. The kid doesn't get to make his own decisions for a long time so get used to paying someone (the mom) to make them for him. Other than that... if the kid is a deal breaker... get ready to break the deal. It doesn't get easier for a few years.

That being said... if the kid is coming... why not give it a shot. You might find you don't miss going out, partying or whatever it is that you do without kids. I know I don't. Oh... and find a good babysitter for when you decide you DO want to go out.

[cadillac59]

If you truely did not want kids, you shouldnt have been having sex. That IS what sex is technically for, dontcha know...


LOL!! Oh my gosh, you really didn't say that, now did you, Steve? I bet someone stole your identity and logged on... would the real Stevetcg stand up?

Sex is technically for having kids? I don't agree with that. What about all the evidence of health benefits associated with sexual activity? That's like saying walking or running is technically to go from A to B; therefore, if you can find another way to do it (like taking your car, having someone carry you on a sedan chair) there's no point in doing either. Nonsense. Having kids is a possible outcome of sex, but that doesn't mean it is its sole or even most important purpose.