[dmrlook]

Hello all - I am in the market for a new water softener. What I do know is I want a metered one. I am looking into either a Fleck 5600 control valve system or an electronic Clack WS1 metered valve system. Aside from perhaps easier programming, is there an advantage to the electronic over the fleck unit (non electronic, gear driven model). Is there a difference in dependability, or lastability. I want something that will go the distance. I am not buying one of the big box store models for that reason.

Any thoughts or advice would be appreciated!

Thanks,
Rob

[Milo Dolezal]

We do not buy anything from Sears - only Kenmore water softeners. Most of our customers swear by them, Genius III + model, in particular. I bought one for my house, too. So I have to recommend the Kenmore model.

[water_doctor]

As far as Clack vs Fleck you are looking at two great valve assemblies. The one thing that I could recommend is that the Clack valve is compartmentalized so that if something goes wrong you will not have to tear apart the whole head in order to fix it. You will see the ease of programming, as well as versatility of function will favor the Clack. And the Clack valve will allow you to program a 6 cycle regeneration. It has an extra backwash cycle. Just some things to think about

[Milo Dolezal]

Water_Doctor: The brands with two/three cylinder designs you are suggesting may work well but they have very industrial look for residential application. I would not want to look at this contraption in my garage, in my laundry room, or on side of my house. It is plain ugly. Also, analog setting is couple of decades behind. You want to install softener that won't scare your wife and kids.

See pics: first 2 small pics are of the Flec brand; the other 2 are today's computerized designs by GE. Can you see the difference ?

[dmrlook]

Water_Doctor: The brands with two/three cylinder designs you are suggesting may work well but they have very industrial look. I would not want to look at this contraption in my garage, in my laundry room, or on side of my house. It is plain ugly. Also, analog setting is couple of decades behind. You want to install softener that won't scare your wife and kids.

See pics: first 2 small pics are of the Flec brand; the other 2 are today's computerized designs by GE. Can you see the difference ?

Thanks to the both of you for responding! There clearly is big difference in looks between softeners. My current softener is more of the industrial type. It just sits in the unfinished part of my basement, next to the furnace and water heater, so looks (nor space) is of concern. I am under the impression that the units like those have better softening capacity as the resin tank is typically larger (thus, potentially less regenerations). I also thought they would be easier to repair as you don't need to pull the resin tank outside the bring tank. Are these assumptions unfounded? So for those reasons, I was leaning towards the industrial looking units over the all in one units. My most important qualification is dependability. I don't want to replace this for another 20 years :-) It looks like both valves I am considering would meet this qualification. So maybe it will come down to cost in the end...

[water_doctor]

I can understand your idea that they look industrial, the beauty is that they are so trustworthy and reliable. I am very familiar with Kenmore/Sears/GE softeners and as we make our business mainly in repairs I have repaired a lot of those systems. If you have had success with them then I am glad they are working well for you. As a personal preference I build the softeners I install and I call them the Dominator. I like the fact the brine tank and the resin tank are separate because we like to put the resin tank down by the water heater and put the brine tank in the garage so that people don't have to carry salt.

Another question to through into the mix is are you looking for filtration as well or just softening. If you want a softener that is going to last 20 years you not only have to worry about the moving parts but also the Resin. Now as a common practice we recommend the industrial cross linking resin (to go with the industrial looking softener I guess) but Chlorine is what will break down your resin beads over time, so you might want to think about a Chlorine Filtration before the water goes into your softener and that will ensure you a good long life for you resin.
Here are the examples of the Dominator and the Dominator Plus (it's the shiny one, this one includes the filtration system inside the tank itself)

[water_doctor]

Sorry I misspelled a word - I meant instead of through, I meant throw. I'm kind of new to this internet thing. I fix and install water softeners, typing isn't my huge strong point (ha ha ha)
Doc, If you make a mistake or misspell a word simply click the edit tab and correct your mistake. Welcome to the Plumbing Page! Tom

[dmrlook]

Thanks for the advice on the resin - I imagine my city water is chlorinated which is probably what did in the first softener. I assume I can purchase more resin in the future to replace the old resin when it goes out, correct? I am not loking for filtration - just softening.

[water_doctor]

That works, yes you can buy resin and replace it in the future. There is a specialized tool out there that makes it pretty painless, but that is 10 or 12 years down the line, really right now you don't need to worry about that.

One thing you need to consider is, are you going to have someone come in and install a new one for you, or are you open to a new idea and are you willing to put it in yourself? Now I only ask this because you mentioned that you already have a softener that you will be taking out to put a new one in, correct?
If you have someone come in and install a softener for you, you are looking between $1400 to $3500 depending on the size and type of softener you buy. If you buy a softener and put it in yourself you will be paying between $1000 and $2500 for the top of the line systems again depending on size and type. The warranties are going to be the same and you will get everything you need including live installation help.

I know, everybody thinks I am crazy the first time that I present this idea but once people realize they can save that much money and it actually is a simple process, most people get really excited. Look at it this way. Instead of having someone come in and put a machine in your home that you know nothing about and give you an instruction manual as he walks out the door, you will get an expert walking you through your system step by step telling you what everything is for as you install it and what you can do to keep it running smoothly for the next 20+ years. There is something very empowering about the knowledge you get when you have someone that is willing to teach you.

Anyway we have helped a lot of people put systems in their home that they love and they appreciate the knowledge that we share with them. We also help them to save a lot of money, and these days that is always a good thing.
If you would like to know more about it let me know. It would also help if you could take a picture of your current set up and email me so we know your current plumbing into and out of your softener.
>E-mail removed<
Oh and don't worry, you don't need any specialized tools or training.
Think about it and let me know
Have a good day

[Milo Dolezal]

That works, yes you can buy resin and replace it in the future. There is a specialized tool out there that makes it pretty painless, but that is 10 or 12 years down the line, really right now you don't need to worry about that.

One thing you need to consider is, are you going to have someone come in and install a new one for you, or are you open to a new idea and are you willing to put it in yourself? Now I only ask this because you mentioned that you already have a softener that you will be taking out to put a new one in, correct?
If you have someone come in and install a softener for you, you are looking between $1400 to $3500 depending on the size and type of softener you buy. If you buy a softener and put it in yourself you will be paying between $1000 and $2500 for the top of the line systems again depending on size and type. The warranties are going to be the same and you will get everything you need including live installation help.

I know, everybody thinks I am crazy the first time that I present this idea but once people realize they can save that much money and it actually is a simple process, most people get really excited. Look at it this way. Instead of having someone come in and put a machine in your home that you know nothing about and give you an instruction manual as he walks out the door, you will get an expert walking you through your system step by step telling you what everything is for as you install it and what you can do to keep it running smoothly for the next 20+ years. There is something very empowering about the knowledge you get when you have someone that is willing to teach you.

Anyway we have helped a lot of people put systems in their home that they love and they appreciate the knowledge that we share with them. We also help them to save a lot of money, and these days that is always a good thing.
If you would like to know more about it let me know. It would also help if you could take a picture of your current set up and email me so we know your current plumbing into and out of your softener.

Oh and don't worry, you don't need any specialized tools or training.
Think about it and let me know
have a good day

You really shouldn't push your product here, Water_Doctor.

[water_doctor]

You really shouldn't push your product here, Water_Doctor.

I apologize if I seemed to be pushing a product, I am simply trying to provide a solution that will solve peoples problems. I didn't know that was not allowed. I figure that if I have a question and someone has a solution then I would want them to at least give me the option of finding out more information. I promise that I will not give any direct quotes or even ask someone directly to purchase something from me, but I will let people know how I can solve their problem and I will use my experience to create solutions. What good is knowledge if you can't share it, and what good is having a solution to someone's problems if you can't offer it to them. Then it is up to that person whether to take your advice or not.

So again I apologize if I seemed to be pushing my product on people. I was trying to solve a legitimate concern with a real solution.
Take it as you will

[dmrlook]

Thanks again everyone for the help - To answer your question Water doc, I am installing the system myself. I have done a lot of plumbing in the past, so I was fully planning on doing the job myself. I'd hate to let my blow torch go to waste! As far as cost, I have found a flack 5600 system online for about $550, so I am surprised to see $1000 as a lower bound cost. Unless you are referring to a super high end system like a culligan or the like.

Thanks,
Rob

[Milo Dolezal]

I apologize if I seemed to be pushing a product, I am simply trying to provide a solution that will solve peoples problems. I didn't know that was not allowed. I figure that if I have a question and someone has a solution then I would want them to at least give me the option of finding out more information. I promise that I will not give any direct quotes or even ask someone directly to purchase something from me, but I will let people know how I can solve their problem and I will use my experience to create solutions. What good is knowledge if you can't share it, and what good is having a solution to someones problems if you can't offer it to them. Then it is up to that person whether to take your advice or not.

So again I apologize if I seemed to be pushing my product on people. I was trying to solve a legitimate concern with a real solution.
Take it as you will

Sure, and let's keep it that way. Btw: Welcome aboard ! Milo

[water_doctor]

Thanks again everyone for the help - To answer your question Water doc, I am installing the system myself. I have done a lot of plumbing in the past, so I was fully planning on doing the job myself. I'd hate to let my blow torch go to waste! As far as cost, I have found a flack 5600 system online for about $550, so I am surprised to see $1000 as a lower bound cost. Unless you are referring to a super high end system like a culligan or the like.

Thanks,
Rob

Excellent, I am sure that it will do well for you. Good luck with that and if you need any other help let us know.
Take care