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joannebburg · Jun 2, 2009, 09:02 AM

I have a 60 amp breaker on my main panel connected by 120' of #4/2 with a ground wire. The black and white wires are connected to the load lugs of the sub panel and the ground wire is attached to the neutral block. The outdoor panel box has 2 - 30 amp GFI breakers. One goes to an outlet for the chlorinator; one to the pump motor. The neutral bar is not bonded to the panel. Do I need to add a bonded grounding bar and a grounding rod at the sub panel? Is there any way to correct the grounding of the box without digging up the wire and adding a fourth (common) wire from the main?

KISS · Jun 2, 2009, 09:18 AM

The sentences run together a bit making this difficult to understand so one thing at a time.

If it's a GFCI breaker, the pigtail goes to neutral. Is this true?

Am I seeing three panels here: main, sub and outdoor?

This makes no sense:

I have a 60 amp breaker on my main panel connected by 120' of #4/2 with a ground wire.

You need two ends. You only defined one of them.

tkrussell · Jun 2, 2009, 09:41 AM

Your going to love this...

You need to add an insulated neutral conductor, "common wire" as you call it.

This can go in the new conduit, along with an insulated green equipment grounding conductor that will be needed when you dig again.

This is from Section 680.25 of Article 680 Swimming Pools, etc of the 2008 National Electric Code.

Cable is not allowed as a feeder to a panelboard that is for pool equipment. Must be conduit with insulated neutral and insulated equipment ground conductor.

joannebburg · Jun 2, 2009, 11:47 AM

I have a main breaker panel, at the house, with a 60amp breaker feeding the (one) subpanel in the yard, this is the subpanel cutoff breaker. The subpanel in the yard has (two) 30 amp GFI breakers, for the pump circuit and the outlet circuit. The GFI breakers are connected corrctly. My question is, with only #4/2 w/ground wire feeding the subpanel, as opposed to #4/3 w/ground, is the subpanel grounded properly? The subpanel box currently has a neutral bar that is not bonded to the box, it has no grounding bar. The pump requires a bonding ground. If the subpanel is not properly grounded, how do I fix it?

tkrussell · Jun 2, 2009, 11:54 AM

The panel in the yard is not wired properly, and not grounded properly.

You need to install a new underground conduit with 3- #4 black, red and white, and 1 - # 6 green with THHN/THWN or XHHW insulation.

Then install a equipment grounding bar in the yard panel for all green equipment grounding conductors.

There is nothing else you can do to correct the grounding of this panel.

What you currently have is not to code and is dangerous to use.

stanfortyman · Jun 2, 2009, 01:47 PM

Joanne, TK is absolutely correct. What you have is not only non-complaint, it is very dangerous and NOTHING short of re-running the feeder will make it right.

The motor bonding has nothing to do with the feeder. It does not have to connect to any electrical box or panel board.

This is a feeder to a pool and pool equipment. The best thing you can do is to hire a qualified electrician to fix the mess you have right now.

tkrussell · Jun 2, 2009, 01:57 PM

I could not have said,

Originally Posted by stanfortyman

The best thing you can do is to hire a qualified electrician to fix the mess you have right now.

Better myself.

Stan reminds me that I don't think I got a point across enough how complicated all of pool wiring can be. And I can only state National Code , many cities and towns have their own codes, or interpretations. Many have sketches showing details of exactly how it should be done.

We here at AMHD are so glad that people are at least aware of problems and ask the right questions.