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miahrosejayne · May 30, 2009, 10:30 AM

My ex husband has temporary custody pending court ordered evaluations (mine are done). In Aug. of 2007, he had his policeman friend come to the door of my home. I had a few beers previously after I had put my 2 year old to bed in her crib. Being naïve, I let the officer into my home. Before the evening was over, my baby was ripped from my arms and placed in her waiting fathers arms outside of my house and I was arrested and taken to jail! I know you can't drink and drive, but I didn't know you can't put your child to bed and drink some beer. This happened in a very small town with only one judge. Pending my ex-husbands psychological evaluation, I had wanted my then 3 year old daughter to visit with me at my mothers house for a two week period. My ex-husband said no. Then the judge said no. A visit to grandma's house! My child's well being is not his main concern at all. He did this to an older child of his and that child's mother. After he had thoroughly messed up the older child, he had that child returned to his mother. He also has another child between these two children with another woman and has no contact with that child. 2 years before the cops came to my door, in Sept. of 2005, he had a constable surprise me at the door with divorce papers and told me that the child and I had to vacate the premises immediately. No concern or mention of my ability to care for the baby at that time. I rented a house, got my old job back, found a great babysitter for my daughter. 6 monthes later, I bought a house. Life was never better for me. He started calling my boss at her home and telling her lies about me. She told me, and she said she didn't believe him. She just wanted to warn me. I had friends tell me that he had told people he was going to rip me apart, limb from limb, physically and figuratively. He told my older daughter (17 at the time) he was going to get me in trouble. And when my older daughter testified on the stand, under oath, to that fact, the judge said he couldn't believe her! I keep thinking there has to be hope for me and my daughter, but it seems that I only run into brick walls. I write her letters and make copies of them before I send them. I tell him someday she is going to know the truth and understand what he is doing. He says "I hope so". In November of 2008, I received a registered letter from his attorney stating that I could only call her on the phone on mondays between the hours of 10:00a.m. and 12:00. If I did not abide, the police would arrest me. Now (may '09), I have received a registered letter from his attorney saying I cannot call her at all. If I do, I will be charged with harassment by communication!

JudyKayTee · May 30, 2009, 10:31 AM

What is your legal question?

If you want personal advice or need to vent this should be moved to one of the relationship/children/parenting boards.

miahrosejayne · May 30, 2009, 10:37 AM

What should my question be? I actually have lots of questions. # 1 being now, how do I move this to the appropriate board?

JudyKayTee · May 30, 2009, 11:10 AM

What should your question be? I have no idea. You posted this on the legal board but I see no request for legal advice.

I have asked that it be moved to a more suitable board, a board where you will get support and not legal advice.

ScottGem · May 30, 2009, 12:52 PM

I moved the thread back to the legal board. Because it looks like you want to know what to do to spend time with your daughter. There is one answer to that:

GET AN ATTORNEY!! Not only are you up against it because he has an attorney and you don't, but you are also up against it because the police and the courts are apparently prejudiced against you.

You have a mess here, that you need an attorney to unravel. If I woere your attorney I would start by getting the decision to take the child away from you overturned.

If there was a pending court order and you legally had the child for a visit, then there was no grounds for them to take your child away. That this was done by an officer, friendly with your ex, smacks of abuse of power.

I believe an attorney should be able to take this to a higher court to overturn the initially custody order and get a change of venue. But you NEED an attorney to do this.

miahrosejayne · May 30, 2009, 02:59 PM

I did have an attorney, I paid him $4000.00 and when that money ran out he hadn't been able to accomplish anything for me and my baby. Although, in the very beginning, when the judge ordered the psychological evaluations of my ex-husband and me, I remember my attorney telling me to get mine done immediately and when the ex doesn't get his done after a reasonable amount of time, we can get a comtempt of court against him if he doesn't comply. Then, when ex's attorney asked my attorney if ex could skip psychological evaluation, my attorney said "ok"! When I found out, I said "no, don't let him out of that." Yes, two weeks previous to this officer arresting me and taking my child, my ex was very blatantly trying to make it obvious to me that he was communicating with this particular officer. Thank you for your response, ScottGem. Support, rational thinking and good advice keep me perservering no matter how difficult I think things are. Was I unjustly arrested, I believe I was and it sounds like you think so too. My attorney said in the beginning it should have been thrown out of court by the magistrate at the pretrial hearing, but of course it wasn't. Then he said when my older daughter testified about my ex-husbands intentions the judge would see through his tactics, but he didn't. I know the judge hasn't put the facts together that my ex used a constable to remove me and this child from his home two years previous to this incident and I asked my attorney to bring this fact up in court, but he didn't. I don't think he thought it mattered. I also asked my attorney to let me go in front of a senior judge that was filling in for the vacationing, biased judge and he said OK. Later, my brother was inquiring about my case to my attorney, and in my attorneys letter in response to my brother, he said for tactical reasons, he waited for vacationing (biased) judge to return! I actually am set up to have a meeting with the legal aid attorney in this county and I want to have all of my ducks in a row as much as possible, any advice and as much advice as I can get before hand would be much appreciated. I also need to be ready to call the place he will have to go for his psych eval before he goes because they said when I went for mine that they wanted any pertinent information or any concerns I wanted addressed beforehand. Yes your answers helped and thanks for moving it back to legal.

ScottGem · May 30, 2009, 03:50 PM

If you can document what your attorney did, you may have a malpractice case against him. Sounds to me like he realized he has to appear before that judge in the future and caved.

cdad · May 30, 2009, 06:50 PM

One piece of advice is to stop changing your story. Another thing is that the courts are suppose to look after the best interest of the child and that's where you should be focusing. Save the pity party stuff for outside the courtroom. Also I have to disagree with Scott on the lawyer you had it sounds like he was trying to follow a line of thinking for later defense and not just washing out. You have to remember that you ran out of money and its normal under those conditions most lawyers will press to just get it over with. If that means compromises then that's where they might go.

JudyKayTee · May 31, 2009, 09:26 AM

Originally Posted by califdadof3

One piece of advice is to stop changing your story. Another thing is that the courts are suppose to look after the best interest of the child and thats where you should be focusing. Save the pity party stuff for outside the courtroom. Also I have to disagree with Scott on the lawyer you had it sounds like he was trying to follow a line of thinking for later defense and not just washing out. You have to remember that you ran out of money and its normal under those conditions most lawyers will press to just get it over with. If that means compromises then thats where they might go.

Out of greenies but I agree - sounds like OP is seeking validation and agreement, not advice... but I said that before.

I always wonder why everyone is against one person.

stinawords · May 31, 2009, 01:18 PM

I too am out of greenies so I'll just say go back and re-read calif's response.

SailorMark · May 31, 2009, 01:37 PM

A registered letter from your ex-husbands attorney is not the same as a court order. Unless you have a court order saying you are not to contact your daughter then I have to presume this is a stunt by his lawyer to show that you haven't been caring enough to try an contact your daughter. Take the letters to another lawyer and see if they can help you!

Oh yeah, see if you can get an ethics complaint filed against his lawyer for the intimidation letters. His lawyer can not state that you will be arrested for harassment by communication unless there is a court order which says you can not communicate with your daughter (I am sure if there is one you would have been served by an officer of the court and not his lawyer). Being a parent comes with rights and those rights are not rescinded simply because you received registered letters.

miahrosejayne · Jun 1, 2009, 05:44 AM

What pity party stuff? How am I supposed to express the facts without stating what happened. What part of my story did I change? Califdadof3, you sound like my sister,"it happened, so it must be right to be like this". I'm not looking for validation, unless that helps me get my daughter back from a man who didn't mind having her ripped out of her mothers arms by cops when she was 2 while she was screaming "don't take me, don't take me". I'm not saying that should never happen, but it shouldn't have happened to me (ha ha , I'm sure you haven't heard that one before). I'm looking for all perspectives and logical deductions to help get my daughter back into the arms of the mother who thinks about her and wants her (I know you love that sentimental stuff JKT, and it looks like you got your "validation" of your previous post from califdadof3). I had 3 miscarriages and a still birth before I got her ( might as well go all the way, more pity right!) I'll tell you what my attorneys line of thinking for later defense was- he'll get tired of this and give her back. Some defense. His attorney tells me not to even call her on the phone. Some compromise! stinawords. Please, what are your ideas. I want to know everyone's ideas.

JudyKayTee · Jun 1, 2009, 06:57 AM

Originally Posted by miahrosejayne

What pity party stuff? How am i supposed to express the facts without stating what happened. What part of my story did I change? califdadof3, you sound like my sister,"it happened, so it must be right to be like this". I'm not looking for validation, unless that helps me get my daughter back from a man who didn't mind having her ripped out of her mothers arms by cops when she was 2 while she was screaming "don't take me, don't take me". I'm not saying that should never happen, but it shouldn't have happened to me (ha ha , I'm sure you haven't heard that one before). I'm looking for all perspectives and logical deductions to help get my daughter back into the arms of the mother who thinks about her and wants her (I know you love that sentimental stuff JKT, and it looks like you got your "validation" of your previous post from califdadof3). I had 3 miscarriages and a still birth before i got her ( might as well go all the way, more pity right!) I'll tell you what my attorneys line of thinking for later defense was- he'll get tired of this and give her back. Some defense. His attorney tells me not to even call her on the phone. Some compromise! stinawords. please, what are your ideas. I want to know everyone's ideas.

Again - you should be focusing on this issue, not your past medical history.

Why is everyone in "the system" against you - ?

stinawords · Jun 1, 2009, 08:09 AM

Has there been a restraining order placed against you? If not then his attorney telling you not to bother calling dosen't mean that much. You need to keep a journal (like I've told many people) about exactly what happens when you do call. No dramatics just what happened. Did the arresting officer give you a sobriety test or a breathalizer? Because it is true that they shouldn't have taken her if all you did was put her to bed and had A beer (maybe two depending on your tolerance) however, you should know that a drunk parent dosen't look good to anyone. Here is the general equation... if one party has representation and the other does not the party with representation will win. So go looking for another lawyer to represent you. Yes, they are expensive. No, they don't have to take payments. Yes, you will need one to fight one.

cdad · Jun 1, 2009, 01:22 PM

Originally Posted by miahrosejayne

What pity party stuff? How am i supposed to express the facts without stating what happened. What part of my story did I change? califdadof3, you sound like my sister,"it happened, so it must be right to be like this". I'm not looking for validation, unless that helps me get my daughter back from a man who didn't mind having her ripped out of her mothers arms by cops when she was 2 while she was screaming "don't take me, don't take me". I'm not saying that should never happen, but it shouldn't have happened to me (ha ha , I'm sure you haven't heard that one before). I'm looking for all perspectives and logical deductions to help get my daughter back into the arms of the mother who thinks about her and wants her (I know you love that sentimental stuff JKT, and it looks like you got your "validation" of your previous post from califdadof3). I had 3 miscarriages and a still birth before i got her ( might as well go all the way, more pity right!) I'll tell you what my attorneys line of thinking for later defense was- he'll get tired of this and give her back. Some defense. His attorney tells me not to even call her on the phone. Some compromise! stinawords. please, what are your ideas. I want to know everyone's ideas.

(quote )
Although, in the very beginning, when the judge ordered the psychological evaluations of my ex-husband and me, I remember my attorney telling me to get mine done immediately and when the ex doesn't get his done after a reasonable amount of time, we can get a comtempt of court against him if he doesn't comply. Then, when ex's attorney asked my attorney if ex could skip psychological evaluation, my attorney said "ok"!

I also need to be ready to call the place he will have to go for his psych eval before he goes because they said when I went for mine that they wanted any pertinent information or any concerns I wanted addressed beforehand. Yes your answers helped and thanks for moving it back to legal.
( end quote )

That alone is enough to show your story changes with your feelings. If your representation said he didn't have to by agreement then he doesn't. You don't seem to be following a straight line.. rather your letting your emotion get in the way and that's not going to fly in court.

miahrosejayne · Jun 1, 2009, 01:57 PM

Sorry, sailormark, I didn't see your reply when I replied earlier. Thank you. About my story changing, when I talked to the secretary at legal aid, she said if it's a court order it can still be enforced whether my previous representation excused him from it or not.

ScottGem · Jun 1, 2009, 07:00 PM

Originally Posted by miahrosejayne

Sorry, sailormark, I didn't see your reply when I replied earlier. Thank you. About my story changing, when I talked to the secretary at legal aid, she said if it's a court order it can still be enforced whether my previous representation excused him from it or not.

The secretary was right. No one can excuse someone from complying with a court order. They have to go to court to get the court order rescinded. Which is one of the reasons your story sounds so strange.

miahrosejayne · Mar 4, 2010, 08:58 AM

So much has happened. I got my conference with the legal aid attorney shortly after those posts. He was going to help me, he thought before he talked to me he could do the evaluation contempt of court with a brief case file, but then said he would make a full case file (sounded good to me). I waited, and I got my paperwork back in the mail with a letter telling me their office couldn't help. That I was to call my ex-husbands attorney and she would explain it to me. I called his office and asked if he could let me know what my ex-husbands attorney had said to him. I didn't get a response. Called another attorney in town I had dealings with in custody before and asked her if she could help (had already paid her a retainer, it was used up, but I thought she would let me pay her for services as I needed them, just a contempt of court) she said no, but good luck. He's been very sick with diabetes and heart trouble recently since he got her. I was talking to her one night when she called me and she said "come home mommy or we're going to shoot ourselves in the head" I hesitated, but I called state police. They checked out the situation and told me not to worry. Because of his illnesses, I had been worried about what he might do if he knew he was terminally ill. And she said that. He laughed at me when he called me the next day. I called children and youth services and they told me "no reason to investigate further". He got sick Monday night and died Tuesday. I went to the courthouse Wednesday morning. The lady I talked to said she had simple forms but she didn’t have one that didn’t ask for a defendant and since he’s dead there is nothing to put in that space, so her forms wouldn’t work, she told me to go see a lawyer. I thought I could just say I have partial custody and the other parent is deceased now. I had to find out through the grapevine he was deceased. His older kids have her and won’t return my calls. I found out later Wednesday they won’t return my dad’s, sisters or my mother’s calls. My mother called them finally and said you have 1 hour to call the mother. They called. The older sibling (she is 30 and I’ve never had a problem with her and I wouldn’t be afraid for her to care for my child while they have her for this period of time) said she was fine and they appreciated the time I was letting them have with her (I think they think they are up to something) I called my mom and she said not good enough we have to hear her voice. My mom called them back and said for them to let her call her grandma. No response. I have an appointment with an attorney who I think will be productive. And he’s calling me Friday morning. But I don’t have a real appointment until Wednesday , 3/10. Now I’m thinking I don’t want to wait. Can’t I just go get her. I’m going to the veiwing because I guess that’s the only way I might get to see her. They will love that. She wouldn’t have to be there the whole time or be with someone else if they would let her be with me. I really hate to call the cops. I’m sick of the cops (in this scenario) and I don’t want to put her through it that way. The only thing keeping her from me was his petition for special relief pending psych evaluations and drug tests. My sister in law says what is wrong with you……go get her!! But it seems that my situation gets handled under a different category of rules. Sorry if the info seems whiney and I know it‘s long ( I don’t care, call it whiney) sorry if some of what I have seems trivial and not pertinent. I’m saying that because I really love askmehelpdesk and I appreciate everyone's advice. I want my daughter back and that actually seems like a real possibility now. What do I do? They can’t possibly have a leg to stand on, can they. They don’t want to keep her forever, they just want to continue their fathers torture.

stinawords · Mar 4, 2010, 09:34 AM

Did you have partial custody or did you loose custody all together? If you had visitation ordered by the court that would still stand. The papers that you were given were real papers that would have worked. You are the plaintif and whoever has the child is the defendant. How did she get placed in the care of her sister? Right now the best chance you have is with the attorney that you have a meeting with. You can't just go get her if you don't have custody, it is possible the state approved her living with the sister as a foster and it would be kidnapping if you just went and got her.

JudyKayTee · Mar 4, 2010, 09:51 AM

I - also - have no idea why custody (if you had joint or partial) wouldn't revert to you upon the death of the "other" parent UNLESS you totally lost custody and have no rights.

An Attorney is your only hope - if the sister has custody of the child without Court permission the Attorney can work out the details very quickly and return the child to you - presuming/assuming you are not a danger and have successfully passed all the psych exams.