[jjustinia]

I have a large rubbing/creaking sound when my washer starts to fill, some times when the bath room sink is turned on. I have my walls and 98% of all the pipes exposed, but can't find where the sound is coming from. It just started before I ripped into the wall. All my pipes are hanging exposed in the basement then rise up through the first floor bathroom walls, which are now open. But I can't find the source. It actually sounds like it is coming from near the water heater, boiler and main water inlet in the basement. But all the pipes there are hanging in mid air attached with straps far away from wood. There is an old water hammer arrestor right after the pressure reducing valve right by the main. I just replace the pressure reducing valve (used a watts PRV). Tuned the pressure in at 60 psi. I also added a thermal expansion tank watts plt 12, properly charged to 60 PSI, in the cold water supply just before the water heater. I also put in a new rheem fury 50 gal. although the creaking started in isolation of all these activities. It has been over a month since these updates. The only thing I can think of is the old water arrestor failed, maybe some dirt got dislodged and jammed in it. I could use some advice as the walls are open and the pipes are easy to see. Just can't really find the actual culprit.

[Milo Dolezal]

It is caused by changes in pressure during water delivery. Also, it may be caused by hot water traveling through pipes. Pipes "move" tiny bit and what you hear is the sound of friction against lumber.

You want to make sure your pipes are not too snug through holes and against framing. Plumber should have used Pipe Insulators to isolate pipes where they touch and/or penetrate lumber.

It is good to have pipe a bit on the loose side...

[KISS]

Start grabbing pipes. Eventually you will find the right one.
Then post a pic and we will help.

[jjustinia]

But when I grab them what am I feeling for?

[speedball1]

Knocking, popping, creaking and crackling pipes are a common complaint, especially in colder weather. I can tell you what's happening and take the mystery out of it but you're not going to like the repair. When a draw is made on a hot water line the line expands against a pipe strap next to a stud and when you drain hot water from your tub or shower it goes into a chase that is a little cooler then room temperature. The heat expands the pipe causing it to rub against the stud to which it is pipe strapped. This is the sound you hear. As it cools it contracts and the noise is heard again. To repair it you must tear open the walls and locate the pipe strap that's causing the problem and shim it tight. Most people when they learn what causes it just elect to live with it. Good luck and thank you for rating my answer. Tom

[jjustinia]

Thanks speedball that comment is very familiar. I feel like I have seen it before, as I mentioned my walls are open so I want to fix it before I close them. It is also summer time and the weather is not cold. I just don't really now how to find the specific spot that is rubbing. I hear that the sound is coming from near the boiler, again all the pipes are hanging and exposed many of them. But which? What am I specifically trying to find. I feel all of them vibrating. I will take picture later and send in.

Here are pics of the pipes.


Here is the main water into the house new pressure reducing vavle and old water hammer arrestor and the pipes traveling up from there. All pipes are off the walls by 6 inches at least and I know that there a mixture of gas lines and radiator lines all mixed in. I know which ones are my water lines, but I am at a lose when I look at them to say this pipe in mid air is making a noise. There is nothing to bang on. Some pipes may look like they are touching inht epics but I assure you they are not it is just the perspective of the pictures.

[speedball1]

Nice pictures! I see lotsa pipes but not a single pipe strap,(see image) to secure them. No wonder you have a problem. Purchase a bunch of 1/2 and 3/4" pipe straps and, for petes sake, back and strap those pipes before you cover them up. Good luck, Tom

[jjustinia]

Thanks but the clips you picture are to attach directly to the wall. The pipes in my pict will not be covered as they are in my utility room, but they all have hanging straps from the joist every 5 feet or so. But none of them are directly on any stud or piece of wood for me to use the item you pictured. I am still not clear. The pipes upstairs in the bath room are also exposed right now and they are traveling direclty between the studs floating between them, but I hear no noise from them.

[speedball1]

Of course your overhead copper's strapped to the joists. That's what keeps them from falling down. Now how about all those pipes I see waving in the breeze. How we strap them to the wall is to secure 2 X 4 backing to the cement wall and strap the pipes to that. Your job was never inspected was it? Ain't no plumber ever put this work in. Another thing I noticed was the galvanized perforated strapping hung from the joists and keeping the copper from falling down.(not the best work I've ever seen.) Unless you want a problem later down the line purchase a roll of copper strapping and replace the galvanized. The reason being that copper and galvanized don't like each other. When they are in contact with each other it set up galvanic current and galvanic current eats pin holes in copper pipes. In short, in addition to your noises it looks like you still have work left to do on your water piping. Good luck, Tom

[jjustinia]

I don't know who did the work. It is original to the house which is 50 years old and it actually seems like good work. I did three things, I cut in the expansion tank you see hanging from 2 copper straps, the fireplace is above so no joist to hang straps, but I managed to get two on it. I replace the Pressure valve next to the main inlet and the work to the washer and dryer were you see the burn marks. That was me, first sweating I did. I am better now. Any way I think most of the straps on the water lines are copper. If you see a galvanized strap it may be on the gas line which is mixed in there, let me know where you see it. Anyway thank you for the specific instructions about the wood on the concrete I should have thought about that. And I will do in as many places as I can but the majority of the work is just hanging from the ceiling. Any comments on the water hammer arrestor pictured. Should I replace while I am at it. Is 60 PSI to high? I appreciate you walking me through this.

[jjustinia]

Ohh think I see the galvanized strap you see. Is right in the middle of the big green boiler expansion tank. If that is the one your are referring to it is actually on a black gas pipe which is tucked behind the radiator lines. You can see it if you look carfully. Is that the one. I assume galvanized is OK on the balck iron.

[speedball1]

I don't mean to criticize your plumbing but running copper water piping was the part of plumbing I liked best and this isn't how I would have laid out your branches and mains. You have a mixture of galvanized pipes that are connected without dielectric unions,you have galvanized strap iron being used nas hangers on copper pipoes, you have branches hanging in mid air that should have been extended over to the wall and backed and strapped and the picture of the water heater looks like a plumbers nightmare with pipes running every whichy way. What should have been done when your house was repiped was to tear out all the old galvanized and replaced with all plastic or copper. But, as you say, it works for you. I couldn't tell you where to start looking but you might try rechanging that air chamber I see next to your PRV valve and see if that helps. Good luck, Tom

[jjustinia]

I am not taking it personally, just want you to be clear on what you are looking at so I can get your best expert opinion to improve the situation. I agree, the plumber made a jungle gym down there. But the are no galvanized pipes connected to copper. The silver pipes you see are copper pipes painted silver. I don't know why they did that but they did. All the pipes near the boiler are painted silver. Which is a pain when you want to cut in because you have to sand it all off. And you're right the main problem is they did not extended the pipes to the walls and strap properly and seems like the main cause of the problem I am having now. I am to blame for the water boiler there was not much space back there and the heater was over pressurizing so I cut in the expansion tank and had to create that loop to get it to fit and have access to all the shut offs, unions, etc for future repair should they be needed.

[speedball1]

the are no galvanized pipes connected to copper. The silver pipes you see are copper pipes painted silver.

Can't buy that when I can see copper connected to threaded malleable iron fittings painted silver,(see image top right). Regards, Tom

[jjustinia]

You are referring /depicting the boiler and heating pipes. That is a whole issue that it is beyond me. I would not touch them. And would not think that they would be involved in the creaking rubbing problem. I am just referring to the home water supply. When and if that old boiler goes bad and get replaced I assume all those pipes will go away with the new install. That boiler is original to the home and still going strong.

[speedball1]

Did you check and recharge that air chamber next to the PRV Valve? Tom

[jjustinia]

You know I did not and I did not know they are rechargeable or how it worked. I just went to get plumbing supplies and got a new one from watts that 30 bucks with a 1/2 thread. It is blue and seems to be the kind you put near the appliance. The once in my picture is different and they don't seem to be equal, although the supply house said it was and the one like the picture was like 90 dollars. It was at that point that I saw that they need to be charged arouind the pressure of the house. As I mentioned I recently installed a new PRV vavle which changed my homes pressure. Maybe that is contributing to the problem? The pressure in the house was 80 PSI with the bad PRV. I put a new one in and adjusted the pressure to 60 PSI. So I lowered it. I have no idea what the air chamber near the PRV vavle was charged at. I know that this problem is new. It just started 1 week ago. I changed the PRV over a month ago, so I am not able to link the problem to a specific change. All can think to do is go with new stuff. Strap as much down as possible and hope it stops the problem. But now I think what I was sold is not the correct part to swap with the item you see in the picture due to the location by the main. Thouhts?

[jjustinia]

I have some galvanized pipe in my house I am trying to eliminate. All the pipes that are carrying waste are easy to rip out and replace with new PVC. Only problem is 2 -2inch vents coming from a vanity and tub. The galvanized 2 inch pipe goes up beyond where I can reach. Is it OK to cut the pipe with a sawzaw as high as I can get it (again this is the vent portion of the pipe) and use extra heavy rubber couplings to go from the 2 inch galvanized to 2 inch PVC. These are dedicated vents not wet vents.

I am just going with 2 inch pipe where ever I can. The pipe I am asking about are not the same ones discussed in the other thread regarding rubbing pipes, FYI.

[Milo Dolezal]

Sure, you can. I would use 2" Galvanized Pipe-to-2" PVC pipe dedicated Fernco Shielded coupling.

[jjustinia]

Thanks! I thought so but wanted to put it to your expertise and see if there was any issue before I start cutting. I have cremco. They are just like fernco, they have the black rubber and the steel shield all around with straps over that. Sound about right?


This is a picture.