[homesell]

That God is the Author and finisher of our salvation

[Tj3]

You mean I typed my heart out and looked up Bible passages all for naught?

I don't know if you did it for naught. When I post I do it for the Lord. What your purposes are, are between you and the Lord.

Phil. 1:6 -- "being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus."

And I agree entirely - Sanctification. I said so already.

I set forth my arguments cogently and with proper, even fantastic, Bible support. Did you even read what I wrote?

Yes, and I responded. That does not mean that I must agree with you, or your interpretation.

Or are you just going to continue to sit there like a stubborn two-year-old (yeah, yeah, I know what you are going to say, so then don't act like one!)

One of the tests of maturity is how one reacts when they are faced with disagreement. Personally, I don't think that derogatory comments strike me as a mature response.

who refuses to enter into any kind of discussion because it's his way or no way?

Then please do not demand that I accept your interpretation and beliefs simply because you post what you think is a killer argument. Discussions are a two way street and I am no more obligated to submit to your position than you to mine.

[Wondergirl]

Yet, we find throughout scripture that we are saved when we receive Christ as Saviour.

Titus 3:4-8
4 But when the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward man appeared, 5 not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, 6 whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 that having been justified by His grace we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
NKJV

I could provide many other references, but clearly salvation is referred to as a past event. Sanctification clearly is an on-going process starting when we are saved.

I said Jesus' death on the cross was the event, the one-time event. Otherwise, our salvation is ongoing as it is linked with sanctification. I listed past, present, and future processes along with supporting Bible verses.

[Tj3]

I said Jesus' death on the cross was the event, the one-time event. Otherwise, our salvation is ongoing as it is linked with sanctification.

I know that you said it. I just don't agree that that teaching is found in scripture.

I listed past, present, and future processes along with supporting Bible verses.

That you did. And I responded. Like I said, I am not required to agree with your interpretation of those verses.

[Wondergirl]

I know that you said it. I just don't agree that that teaching is found in scripture. That you did. And I responded. Like I said, I am not required to agree with your interpretation of those verses.

The Bible is very clear.

[Tj3]

The Bible is very clear.

I agree that it is clear.

[JoeT777]

I already responded. He mistakes sanctification in part for salvation.

If sanctification isn't a part of salvation then what's the point of salvation?

But we know “Sanctitas in the Vulgate of the New Testament as one of two words, hagiosyne (1 Thess. iii,13) and hosiotes (Luke 1:75; Ephesians 4:24). These two Greek words express respectively the two ideas connoted by "holiness" viz.: that of separation as seen in hagios from hagos, which denotes "any matter of religious awe" (the Latin sacer); and that of sanctioned (sancitus), that which is hosios has received God's seal.” Furthermore we know that “Sanctifying Graces(gratia, Charis), in general, is a supernatural gift of God to intellectual creatures (men, angels) for their eternal salvation,” CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Sanctifying Grace

And as Paul teaches God has chosen you for salvation by making you first holy, i.e. a process you must cooperate with. "But we ought to give thanks to God always for you, brethren, beloved of God, for that God hath chosen you firstfruits unto salvation, in sanctification of the spirit and faith of the truth": (2 Thess 2)

So you can see there is only one mistake here.

JoeT

[Wondergirl]

I agree that it is clear.

As is Phil. 1:6 -- "being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus."

[Wondergirl]

That God is the Author and finisher of our salvation

Ah, you got it! God began the work of salvation on Calvary and will finish it when He gives us our crowns of glory in heaven. (Stop by the celestial kitchen then and I will sit you down with some freshly-baked brownies and a glass of cold milk --or coffee, if you prefer.)

[Tj3]

As is Phil. 1:6 -- "being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus."

I already responded to this one, and saw nothing back from you. Maybe it is not obvious, but just because you keep saying it does not mean that I am suddenly going to agree with your interpretation.

Might I suggest that you may be more effective if you were to actually explain why you disagree with my response and actually carry on a discussion rather than demand I agree with you simply because you say so. Maybe your husband says "yes, dear" to everything you say, but I don't! ;)

[Wondergirl]

I don't know if you did it for naught. When I post I do it for the Lord. What your purposes are, are between you and the Lord.

Do you know what "for naught" means?

And I agree entirely - Sanctification. I said so already.

Good. Santification entwined with salvation.

One of the tests of maturity is how one reacts when they are faced with disagreement. Personally, I don't think that derigatory comments strike me as a mature response.

This wasn't a test of maturity on my part. It was a test of my maternal patience. Apparently, I was close to failing. At least, all I ended up doing was identify the problem.

Then please do not demand that I accept your interpretation and beliefs simply because you post what you think is a killer argument.

The Bible says what it says, and quite clearly--even very clearly.

[Tj3]

If sanctification isn’t a part of salvation then what’s the point of salvation?

I am surprised that you asked this question. The point of salvation is atonement from our sins:

Rev 1:5-7
To Him who loved us and washed us from our sins in His own blood, 6 and has made us kings and priests to His God and Father, to Him be glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen.
NKJV
Sanctification is a result of and follows that atonement (we cannot be sanctified if we are still slaves to sin).

[Tj3]

Do you know what "for naught" means?

I find these silly back and forth volleys tiring. Please focus on a discussion on the topic.

Good. Santification entwined with salvation.

Don't twist my words. That passage was speaking of sanctification - where did it say that the sanctification was intertwined with salvation. Once again, I don't just say "yes, dear" when you tell me what I am to believe. Deal with it. If you think that it says that salvation is interwined with sanctification as a combined process, then explain your position and we can discuss.

The Bible says what it says, and quite clearly--even very clearly.

Yes, it does - at least we agree on that point. It is because it is so clear that I don't just submit to your interpretation!

[Wondergirl]

If you think that it says that salvation is interwined with sanctification as a combined process, then explain your position and we can discuss.

I did already.

[Tj3]

I did already.

Ho hum - just repeating the sane verse over and over isn't cutting it.

[Wondergirl]

Ho hum - just repeating the sane verse over and over isn't cutting it.

Yes, it IS a sane verse, isn't it.

Please reread my Post #156, then we can discuss. So far all you have said is that you don't like "my" interpretation. Those verses are very clear. Which parts don't you understand?

[Tj3]

Please reread my Post #156, then we can discuss. So far all you have said is that you don't like "my" interpretation. Those verses are very clear. Which parts don't you understand?

I understand it all and responded already.

Ditto to you my post #157. You might also find #172 and 173 good to read.

[Wondergirl]

I understand it all and responded already.

So you have no response to/discussion regarding the verses I quoted, nor will you cite any further proofs yourself. You are "clear" on this topic and do not wish to discuss it further.

Ditto to you my post #157

That's homesell's post.

[Tj3]

So you have no response to/discussion regarding the verses I quoted, nor will you cite any further proofs yourself. You are "clear" on this topic and do not wish to discuss it further.

I already provided a scripture reference and explained where I find your argument lacking. If yopu are unwilling to respond further, then I guess that we leave it there.

That's homesell's post.

The first reference that you gave me was homseel saying "oops". I have noticed before that sometimes for different people, the post numbering will be one off from another person.

I added two more posts that maybe you did not read already. If you care to discuss at all, these are 172 and 173.

If all you want to do is to point to past posts, then let's not.

[Wondergirl]

I already provided a scripture reference and explained where I find your argument lacking. If yopu are unwilling to respond further, then I guess that we leave it there.


The first reference that you gave me was homseel saying "oops". I have noticed before that sometimes for different people, the post numbering will be one off from another person.

I added two more posts that maybe you did not read already. If you care to discuss at all, these are 172 and 173.

If all you want to do is to point to past posts, then let's not.

So the following is meaningless to you, that salvation is ongoing for Christians?

Christians have been saved, through Jesus' sacrifice, from the penalty of sin.

Christians are being saved from the power of sin.

"The word of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us who are being saved [Greek participle in present tense], it is the power of God" (1 Cor. 1:18).

Phil. 2:12 says: "Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling." The Philippian converts were to make effective for themselves the new life that the Holy Spirit had put into their hearts. Again, Christians are being saved through the work of the Spirit, a progressive salvation/sanctification. It has to do not with soul, nor with body, but with life, with growing in grace.

Christians shall be saved from the presence of sin.

Rom. 8:23 -- this future salvation is "the redemption of our body" that will take place in the resurrection of those who sleep in Christ (1 Cor. 15:52-56). Then the regenerated spirit will enter into the full fruition of salvation, as Akoue stated.

Thus, there are different phases of salvation. One cannot remove one or nullify any of the others.

Paul, in Phil 1:6 and 2:13, tells us how God begins the work of salvation and carries it on to its conclusion in heaven. All along the way, God works in us "both to will and to do His good pleasure," with grace through faith.