[gromitt82]

THANK YOU Gromitt, so much better. I think I am guilty of both. I feel guilty when I do wrong because I know I've disappointed something that is bigger and better than me. On top of that, the chance of getting caught can also inter into the equation. But I have to say contrition is my biggest motivating factor.

Let me congratulate you for going by your own statement you are much better than I am.
I am quite motivated by my beliefs but, unfortunately, I must humbly admit that most of the time, my behavior, deep inside me, is mostly motivated by the atrition sorrow, i.e. by fear of the eventual punishment.

No matter how much I keep on telling myself that I love our Lord I know that is not the pure love a baby has for his/her mother or father, but a love tinted with respect and fear of displeasing the Lord with my deeds.

I do not know whether you are familiar with the poetry of the 16th century poet St. John of the Cross. But his poems to the Lord are those of a man absolutely and unconditionally in love with his Father, God.

I guess one has to be a saint to feel anything like that.

[gromitt82]

I strongly disagree. The Universe doesn't care at all what we do here on Earth. It's entirely up to us how we behave. The Creator has way bigger things to care for. This explains all this CHAOS around.

Universon,

If you do not mind let my give my point of view on what you have just said.

a) The Earth is an insignificant part of the Universe. And as such, it follows the Universal Laws that control the whole Universe.

b) As for our Creator, we are not to even start guessing what the things the Creator cares for are. Assuming, of course, the Creator and us, humans, use the same terminology and logic. I can’t help thinking that many of us think of God as a venerable and August white bearded prophet sitting in his throne way up in Heaven and looking down on us while wondering whether he should or should not interfere in our petty problems...

But, actually, all we know is that God sent his Son to redeem us (an immense prove of love for mankind) and, subsequently, we were left free to determine whether we wanted to accept this token of love or refuse it.

To start with, why do we think Heaven is above us?

Do we honestly have any idea of where God’s Kingdom actually is? :):)

[cozyk]

I strongly disagree. The Universe doesn't care at all what we do here on Earth. It's entirely up to us how we behave. The Creator has way bigger things to care for. This explains all this CHAOS around.

Back at cha. I couldn't disagree with you more. The Creator is big enough for all of it.

[Universon]

Back at cha. I couldn't disagree with you more. The Creator is big enough for all of it.

What's the Creator for you?

[cozyk]

What's the Creator for you?

It is everything that is.

[Universon]

It is everything that is.

Well, I meant does it help people? Does it punishing people, give us a freedom, or limits it? And HOW do we get help from the Creator? What's your way of doing that? I just want to learn. Thx

[bedford2009]

I believe closer with you, then I have with anyone else. It very refreshing to read this.. its like I wrote it myself!

[cozyk]

I believe closer with you, then i have with anyone else. It very refreshing to read this.. its like i wrote it myself!!

I'm not sure who you are agreeing with. Is it universal guy or cozyk?

[cozyk]

Well, I meant does it help people? Does it punishing people, give us a freedom, or limits it? And HOW do we get help from the Creator? What's your way of doing that? I just wanna learn. Thx

Well, here's the thing. It is so great that it is beyond our comprehension. At least that is my personal belief. It/He/God/Creator/Divine Spirit/ is everything that is right and good and intelligent and loving and powerful and any other word you can come up with that is positive. He is a listener when I need to spill, He inspires me when I feel helpless, He comforts me when I feel sad or lost. What It isn't (IMHO) is evil, petty, punishing, scary, vindictive, tricky, or any other negative word you can come up with.

If anyone has noticed, I'm very deliberate with my capitalization of certain words. When I speak of the god most christians speak of in the bible that is killing people, angry all the time, etc. I write it like this. God-he-him, and so on.

When I am referring to the Power of goodness that I call God for symplaciy's sake, I write it like this. God-He-Him You get the picture?

[gromitt82]

I'm not sure who you are agreeing with. Is it universal guy or cozyk?

Cozyk and Universon,

I'm sort of puzzled. What are you debating regarding the Creator of everything? Do you really debate what our Creator's designs are? Do you actually believe you know anything about our Creator other than the entire Universe and whatever it contains is the Creator's work?

[lighterrr]

Hi,
I believe that no religion is completely right for the fact that all people are individual and can not follow a list of rules agreed--not entirely--by a group of people who may be "too devout" for their own good. However, I do believe that every religion, no matter how bogus it may be does hold some truth. Religion is an organization and something like faith should not be organized but random and individual. On the other hand, you should have your own methods and ideas for how you follow the "Higher Power". Continuing on that note, do you also believe that what might be considered wrong, evil, a sin(or whatever slang you sling) for one person could be done with the same intention for another person and not be wrong at all?

Please, I welcome your opinions on this topic?

I agree not only is it meaningless its also very limiting, religion is like a spiritual governance, in that it dictates to us how we should live and I am not sure anyone can actually live up to their full potential with such limitations inplace. Its not what the creator intended for us in this life.

[gromitt82]

i agree not only is it meaningless its also very limiting, religion is like a spiritual governance, in that it dictates to us how we should live and i am not sure anyone can actually live up to their full potential with such limitations inplace. its not what the creator intended for us in this life.

In the first place Christians are NOT dictated how they should live, for GOD made us free to live our own way. We are simply being told what we have to do if we really want to be able to enter GOD's Kingdom one day.
Actually, we are certainly much more free as far as following GOD's Law or not than we are as far as following men's law right here.
We are subject to a set of rules that we better abide by or else...
God's Law is simpler - You only have 11 Commandments to follow, but if you don't, nobody will sent you to jail or fine you... You will ONLY have to account for your deeds and actions ONCE you are NO LONGER here... And then, what you think now will not matter ANY MORE...
Incidentally, I wish you could tell us what is what the creator intended for us in this life and how do you know it... :D

[lighterrr]

In the first place Christians are NOT dictated how they should live, for GOD made us free to live our own way. We are simply being told what we have to do if we really want to be able to enter in GOD's Kingdom one day.
Actually, we are certainly much more free as far as following GOD's Law or not than we are as far as following men's law right here.
We are subject to a set of rules that we better abide by or else...
God's Law is simpler - You only have 11 Commandments to follow, but if you don't, nobody will sent you to jail or fine you... You will ONLY have to account for your deeds and actions ONCE you are NO LONGER here... And then, what you think now will not matter ANY MORE...
Incidentally, I wish you could tell us what is what the creator intended for us in this life and how do you know it...:D

I don't know for sure, its just my personal belief is that the creator put us on this earth to fulfill the specific destiny of each soul that inhabits this earth. Where all part of the master plan in which every soul is enlightened and has attained a higher level of counciousness, when we discover the light within us and we tap into it to discover that we are all god's in our own right.

Every thing that we need in this life was given to us from the creator @ birth but its up to us to find it and religion and the church in my opinion does not help with this journey except to confuse and lead people astray and away from the truth.

[artlady]

i dont know for sure, its just my personal beleif is that the creator put us on this earth to fulfill the the specific destiny of each soul that inhabits this earth. Where all part of the master plan in which every soul is enlightened and has attained a higher level of counciousness, when we discover the light within us and we tap into it to discover that we are all god's in our own right.

Every thing that we need in this life was given to us from the creator @ birth but its up to us to find it and religion and the church in my opinion does not help with this journey except to confuse and lead ppl astray and away from the truth.

My sentiments exactly.We do not have to wait for Jesus to return to know we are God like now!
I don't believe churches lead people astray.There is a beautiful fellowship in church and I love it! It is beautiful if you are in the right church for you.
It's a beautiful thing when we find our spot!

[artlady]

Well, here's the thing. It is so great that it is beyond our comprehension. At least that is my personal belief. It/He/God/Creator/Divine Spirit/ is everything that is right and good and intelligent and loving and powerful and any other word you can come up with that is positive. He is a listener when I need to spill, He inspires me when I feel helpless, He comforts me when I feel sad or lost. What It isn't (IMHO) is evil, petty, punishing, scary, vindictive, tricky, or any other negative word you can come up with.

If anyone has noticed, I'm very deliberate with my capitalization of certain words. When I speak of the god most christians speak of in the bible that is killing people, angry all the time, etc. I write it like this. god-he-him, and so on.

When I am referring to the Power of goodness that I call God for symplaciy's sake, I write it like this. God-He-Him You get the picture?

Beautiful! You made me smile :) I love what you had to say,and I must say I needed that today :D

[cozyk]

Beautiful! You made me smile :) I love what you had to say,and I must say I needed that today :D

Glad to be of service artlady!:D

[lighterrr]

My sentiments exactly.We do not have to wait for Jesus to return to know we are God like now!
I don't believe churches lead people astray.There is a beautiful fellowship in church and I love it! It is beautiful if you are in the right church for you.
It's a beautiful thing when we find our spot!

Very true but with most pastors that I have met wanting get rich by fleecing their flocks has not allowed me to look @ the church in such a positive light anymore

[cozyk]

That's not what God says. Those who don't obey Him will be sent to Hell. Period. Even those who say they believe in Him, if they don't obey will be sent to Hell. He will not allow sin (unconfessed and blood covered) into His presence. There WILL be a day when all who live and have ever lived will stand before Him in judgment. I hope my name is in His book of life. I hope I can remain obedient until that day.

John 14:6
Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.

Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Luke 13
Repent or Perish
1 There were present at that season some who told Him about the Galileans whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices. 2 And Jesus answered and said to them, “Do you suppose that these Galileans were worse sinners than all other Galileans, because they suffered such things? 3 I tell you, no; but unless you repent you will all likewise perish. 4 Or those eighteen on whom the tower in Siloam fell and killed them, do you think that they were worse sinners than all other men who dwelt in Jerusalem? 5 I tell you, no; but unless you repent you will all likewise perish.”

The Narrow Way

22 And He went through the cities and villages, teaching, and journeying toward Jerusalem. 23 Then one said to Him, “Lord, are there few who are saved?”
And He said to them, 24 “Strive to enter through the narrow gate, for many, I say to you, will seek to enter and will not be able. 25 When once the Master of the house has risen up and shut the door, and you begin to stand outside and knock at the door, saying, ‘Lord, Lord, open for us,’ and He will answer and say to you, ‘I do not know you, where you are from,’ 26 then you will begin to say, ‘We ate and drank in Your presence, and You taught in our streets.’ 27 But He will say, ‘I tell you I do not know you, where you are from. Depart from Me, all you workers of iniquity.’ 28 There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, and yourselves thrust out. 29 They will come from the east and the west, from the north and the south, and sit down in the kingdom of God. 30 And indeed there are last who will be first, and there are first who will be last.”

So you say, and so the bible says. That doesn't make it truth.

[Peacekelsey]

So you say, and so the bible says. That doesn't make it truth.

So true Cozyk!! Everyone else, Ugh, why is this discussion still going on?? I thought it was done like 5 times now, and honestly I'm tired of getting the emails. People, whatever makes you keep on kicking believe. Lets not beat it into the ground anymore.

[lighterrr]

So true Cozyk!!! Everyone else, Ugh, why is this discussion still going on???? I thought it was done like 5 times now, and honestly I'm tired of getting the emails. People, whatever makes you keep on kicking believe. Lets not beat it into the ground anymore.

This is the only decison/opinion that I agree with since the start of this threa close it down already :D